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Recording sucks the air out if the room too.
As a composition IMHO it gets better as it goes. Great moments in the first movt notwithstanding, I've yet to hear a coherent or really tight performance of said movt.
The final movt is so eccentric and eccentrically-scored at times--all those "garumps" and bare-boned color--that the conductor really needs to encourage his instrumentalists to play with character and throw a little attitude. Sadly not enough from Davis' LSO this time around.
Currently I still prefer Maazel with the VPO as my go-to. Probably going to check out Karajan's next. Samples of Vanska's Minnesota seemed a bit pastel and lightweight. Am I right?
Follow Ups:
If anyone mentioned Barbirolli's performance with the RPO, I missed it. I find that curious.
I no longer have the Barbirolli set (except for the Readers Digest Second with the RPO on Chesky - but that was a one-off recording), but I remember it as being much to my liking in its tempos and general approach. I love the intense string playing in this set!
Another set that hasn't been mentioned is the Kurt Sanderling / Berlin Symphony album - not to mention the various Paavo Berglund sets. (Berglund made three complete cycles and recorded a couple of individual symphonies beyond that!)
Frankly, I find all of these - Barbirolli, Berglund (in at least two of his three sets), and Sanderling - every bit as compelling as anything I've heard from Davis (all three sets), Ashkenazy and Maazel, if not more so (although I think I do need to re-acquaint myself with the Maazel performances again). Strangely enough, these latter three conductors IMHO seem to be better in the first couple of symphonies than in the great and profound later works as a general rule.
Chris, the Sibelius 4th in the Maazel/Vienna set is just terrific. I think he gets the gray, threatening aesthetic of the first movement just right.
As Sibelius is one of my favorite composers, I suppose I would enjoy any lengthy thread on him music. Sibelius is one of the 4 major symphonists where I can say I have heard all of their symphonies live, the others being Beethoven, Brahms, and Mahler. I learned the second symphony with HvK's Philharmonia recording, although I actually didn't like it then that much - it took a tape of the Szell/Concertgebouw to make me a true believer of the 2nd. I also heard Karajan's protégé Kamu conduct it live soon before he recorded it for the DG Sibelius cycle, and I have been fortunate enough to hear conductors like Maazel, Blomstedt, Vanksa, Gilbert, Boughton (a good 5th!), Susanna Malkki (an even better one), and MTT perform the symphonies live.
I have been slowly collecting more of HvK's Sibelius - his Phiharmonia recordings are really good (although I didn't like that 2nd, but that was a LONG time ago), although the sound is not as transparent as one would like. I like what I have heard of his DG set thus far - well just the 5th thus far. I have not heard anything of his later EMI set, and I was actually a little surprised by its existence, as I thought I had heard that he wasn't really a fan of 1-3, which is why Kamu recorded them for the DG set.
I have Colin Davis's BSO set, and a few of the LSO Live set - the Barbican is a truly nasty concert hall (I have been to a concert there), and the sound of most of the LSO Live recordings reflects that. I also have the Maazel VPO set, which is good, and a few Bernsteins (not a fan), and well, many others.
Good post TGR. I really like Karajan's DG 5th, my favorite Sibelius symphony. And very much like Kamu's 3rd. Have you heard his (Kamu) 1st and 2nd for DG? I heard he's recording a cycle for BIS.
I have his second on DG, but haven't heard the first or 3rd. The second is good, although not as structurally taut as Szell. His Bis set is out - received what I would call mixed reviews. Haven't heard it myself.
Try the John Storgards Sibelius 2 on Chandos. Intense performance and superb sound. Unfortunately you have to buy the whole symphony cycle although downloads may break up the set if you can buy tracks.
N
Also, there's a little bit of a minus for me in that there doesn't seem to be a multi-channel download available anywhere, even though the SACD is (presumably?) multi-channel. (And I don't want to buy the SACD because the master is PCM, and, just on principle, I avoid format conversions if I can.)
I like the fact that the Storgards set also contains those tiny fragments from the Eighth Symphony - fascinating!
Among the many very recent sets of Sibelius symphonies, I recently got the Kamu and Vanska/Minnesota sets on BIS - I still have Storgards and Lintu to go!
I am perfectly happy with 44.1/16, if the recording is sound.
(other than the little excerpts on The Classical Shop site)
Quite often, I'm very happy with 16/44.1 too. I do like the multi-channel aspect (which is much more available in the higher-rez worlds) and I miss it when it's not there. Still, that doesn't mean that I dislike CD rez at all.
You (and other listeners) are right to emphasize that it's the basics that make the biggest difference in our reactions to recordings - higher-rez is just icing on the cake.
I think that with jdaniel having left the vinyl world in favor of the hi-rez digital world, we've been having a lot of discussion here recently which is connected to his new interest.
Chandos have not released it in SACD. It is only available in 16/44.1. stereo. This is because it is not originally a Chandos recording but a BBC one made at their new(ish) Media City studio in Salford (Manchester). This is home to the BBC Philharmonic and they have the luxury of a state of the art space designed for the purposes of recording and broadcasting. I regularly listen to broadcasts from there and SQ is uniformly excellent. So good that I wonder if you would know that it isn't a higher resolution format if you hadn't been told ( absence of surround sound notwithstanding)? BTW I don't suggest that the original recording format was 16/44.1. I think it may have been 24/96 given the new facilities at Salford.Although I agree with your stance on avoiding format conversions to carry it to a logical conclusion would mean not buying SACD or DSD recordings. All will have been sample rate converted. The majority from PCM masters and those remaining during editing. Whatever the demerits of conversion are they will remain audible even if the final stage is conversion back to the original DSD.
Incidentally I have the Neschling Respighi Roman Festivals recording in both SACD and in its original recording format of 24/44.1. The latter sounds better than the SACD. I ought to check this again though as I believe that my SACD player was due a service at the time I did the comparison.
BTW have you noticed that Chandos appear to have removed that highly useful section on their website which gave details of all recordings in their catalogue including original recording format?
Edits: 11/08/16 11/08/16
I agree that they're generally wonderful. I never get tired of recommending Sinaisky's Rimsky-Korsakov album, or his multi-composer album whose CD incarnation was once available as a BBC Music Magazine freebie:
(For some reason, I can't find the 24/96 download of the Glazunov album right now - it has/had a different cover)
Anyway, the Stogards Sibelius set is available as a 24/96 download from The Classical Shop, but in 2-channel only. As I suggested in my earlier post, I'll probably break down and get the download at some point. Bad assumption on my part that it was available in SACD format.
BTW, in connection with your comments, I do try to minimize my purchases of SACD's these days, although of course I do have a lot of them from years past, and, since my pre-pro doesn't "do" DSD, SACD's are my only means of getting the "pure" (LOL!) DSD experience (by means of the internal DAC in one of my older players and its analog connections).
And, yes, I've noticed the changes in the Chandos (Classical Shop) website which in many ways make it more difficult to get to the information I want - I guess that's progress! ;-)
" Anyway, the Stogards Sibelius set is available as a 24/96 download from The Classical Shop"
Sorry to disappoint you Chris but it's redbook only. However my view is that the sound is so good that you won't care ( subject, of course, to how good your 16/44.1 processing is).
Nice to see you supporting Radio 3!
. . . for a mere 24.99 pounds - not too bad for a set like this.
Chris, Thanks and damn, I've already bought the 16/44.1. Still if those nice Nigerian gentlemen who are promising me 25% of 100M pounds sterling for using my bank account to keep their income in excess of what they have accounted for come through I shall be able to afford both .
Best Wishes
Pete
must buy whole cycle, which is $85.
May still pull the trigger, but while listening to samples, there a very unfortunately horn crack in the finale of the 5th. But that leave the rest....
I just checked The Classical Shop and it is possible to download only the 2nd in Storgards' traversal of the cycle. It would cost you 9.80 gbp which is not a bargain compared to the whole set at under 20 gbp.
I then ripped the BD Audio disc to get the hi-res files onto my computer. A much cheaper proposition than buying the hi-res files alone (if you've got the ability to rip BDs, that is).
Russell
performances?
I'm a late-comer to this set, and I was frankly stunned by both Maazel's intensity and the VPO's ability to turn a "craggy" phrase.
So glad I didn't completely fall prey to the anti-Maazel soundbites on the 'net, (although mostly spot on, LOL), but I really enjoyed his Sibelius 1st and 2nd, but haven't heard the rest in their entirety.
And then there's that Decca sound....
I love Maazel's intensity and the sound of the VPO in this set, and Decca's done a great job with the remastering. (It's from Maazel's early days and has none of the mannerisms/slow-downs that crept into his recordings in his late years (post-Cleveland).) The Tchaikovsky/VPO set he did around the same time is cut from the same cloth--maybe that'll be next.
Russell
Very dry there. All that wood?
I bought most of the LSO set and prefer the RCA set, sound and performances.
I like Vanska's Lahti Sibelius 2nd.
most beloved composers, and apart from the recent 2nd, about which the Brit raved, the rest of his cycle hasn't been received well at all.
What clinched the purchase for me was the blurb of a reviewer who marveled at how much more invigorating the performance was because it was recorded live, but personally, I didn't feel the same love.
IMO there is no better performance of this piece, and the sound is decent as well. Runs rings around the Szell/Concertgebouw recording, too.
Np
I recently purchased the LSO Live repackaging of Davis' last Sibelius cycle (which includes a Pure Audio Blu-Ray disc along with the several SACDs). In general, a disappointment both in sound quality and interpretation. After that, I dug up my Karajan EMI/Warner Sibelius from the remastered edition and was stunned at the power and passion of the performances. Somehow I'd forgotten about them (getting old, I think). The sound is a little rough at times, but the performances are riveting. Now I can enjoy these discs as well as the Maazel/VPO when I'm in the mood for Sibelius.
There can be many "rights" in Finnish.
Which one?
Berlin or Philharmonia?
Also, what does the CD cover look like as I would prefer to hear the 're-mastered' version but can find no reference to remastering dates on either.
I have the box with the Philharmonia recordings on order:
I have his mono Philharmonia Tallis Fantasia, first, as an EMI Lp, and finally as a download.
I've been hesitant to recommend it over the famous Barbirolli, but a little graininess aside, I've never heard a more cohesive, well-shaped performance.
Available at Presto Classical for $1.50.
N
nt
.
And of the Maazel.
The later LSO recordings (studio and live) don't even come close. I remember seeing an "Evening at Symphony" telecast years ago on PBS where he did the Sibelius 2 with the BSO--it was electrifying. I'm still hoping that that video will be released somehow (YouTube or otherwise); I'd love to see it again.
Russell
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