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In Reply to: RE: Clarinetist posted by rbolaw on August 23, 2016 at 11:01:24
which is audible on some recordings I've heard.
A local player does that, sometimes whacking the music stand!
Follow Ups:
I thought Kam was going to nail the concertmaster in the noggin with the bell of her horn.....
I watched this performance a couple years ago. (I remember the "narrow hall" and the swaying of the soloist.) The disconcerting part of the performance was the "broken phrasing"..... Kam tended to lag behind the beat, a common failing in this Mozart work. (The "attacks" is what separate the good clarinetists from the great ones. Kam's "attacks" in the upper registers was the main shortcoming.) Clarinetists told me the Mozart is an easy piece to play, but a difficult one to play well.
This may sound like sacrilege, but the best performance I've heard of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto was Benny Goodman. (He was the best ever in the upper registers, jazz or classical.) With Robert Marcellus a close second.
Though what you call a "failing" I would call a common modern stylistic technique. I have Benny Goodman's Mozart Concerto and Quintet and Bartok's Contrasts. He plays very precisely, but for me it sometimes comes off as too respectful and cautious. Of course, he is very careful not to bring any of his jazz style into it, where lagging WAY behind the beat is routine.
There is no denying Goodman's spectacular technique, though. I like Jack Brymer in the Mozart too.
"Lagging behind the beat" is often done purposely in jazz.... But in classical playing, it never sounds right to me....
This happened to be a pet peeve of George Szell, who often demanded musicians to compensate by attacking ahead of the beat...
Today's classical clarinet players often use a "soft" attack and then lean into the note more fully, especially in long legato phrases. This would generally be a no-no for wind instruments, in part for exactly the reason you suggest -- it can create the effect, if not the reality, of playing behind the beat.
I suspect the idea is similar to the idea behind avoiding all vibrato, as nearly all of today's classical clarinetists also do, i.e., to soften and tame the sound of an instrument that might otherwise be too harsh and astringent for classical music. As Jack Brymer said, "The ability to play the clarinet is the ability to overcome the imperfections of the instrument."
I don't recall any classical clarinetist using vibrato.... Save for the opening solo in Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue"........
Ironically, this was my only complaint about the Goodman Mozart Concerto..... Albeit slight, it does mar the work.
Many clarinetists use vibrato on occasion but very subtly. NOT like Benny Goodman.
Where do you come up with this?
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
"Where do you come up with this?"
I guess if you can explain what "this" is, I could better answer your question.
"This" is "I don't recall any classical clarinetist using vibrato".
IME, many classical clarinetists use vibrato, albeit, very subtlety. You must listen carefully. To me, it's like saying Emma Kirkby does not use vibrato but of course she does, just not as much as say, Barbara Bonney.
Oh well, I guess I've made a mountain out of a molehill since I love the clarinet.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
I personally like the trumpet..... A good principal trumpeter IMO has more impact on an orchestra's "sound" than any other player.
Not to say other musicians don't have impact..... I think the flute, for example, can really impact Schumann orchestral works..... Clarinet has a big role in Dvorak's "New World" Symphony..... And horns, of course, for Richard Wagner.
They have no idea how to produce it, it mars Pitch, sounds sour, and is totally annoying.
Check out Richard Stoltzman...
Swing Players got it, but it doesn't translate.
Check out David Oppenheim, who recorded the Brahms and Mozart Quintets with the Budapest String Quartet for Columbia in the early sixties. He recorded the Stravinsky Octet and Histoire du Soldat with the composer conducting in the mid 50s, also for Columbia, and was in the Stokowski Orchestra for some of his early RCA recordings in the late 40s and early 50s, with notable solos in the Nutcracker Suite and Swan Lake. Best of all imo was his Shepherd on the rock with Dorothy Maynor, who sings the best version I've heard by far. He recorded Shepherd a second time with a German soprano, but that isn't quite as good.
Jacques Lancelot. He recorded a great deal of chamber music with the Quintette à vent français, also the Brahms sonatas with Annie D'Arco and the Brahms Quintet with the Amadeus String Quartet.
David Oppenheim. He recorded the Mozart and Brahms Quintets with the Budapest String Quartet.
Ed.: While you can detect some subtle and occasional use of vibrato with today's clarinetists, these players used it far more, and far more noticeably, than is common today.
Edits: 08/26/16 08/26/16
Richard Stoltzman
Stoltzman and nearly every other classical player today are a long way from Jacques Lancelot and David Oppenheim. A completely different way of playing.
rbolaw wrote: "Stoltzman and nearly every other classical player today are a long way from Jacques Lancelot and David Oppenheim. A completely different way of playing."
Of course... I was simnply listing Stoltzman as an example of a classical clarinetist who uses vibrato. Jacl Brymer did, too, although more subtly than Stoltzman.
The further in time you go back, the more you hear it (although not to the same extent on all recordings). It's one of the things that made the sound of that orchestra very distinctive. Like the BPO, the CzPO has lost much of its distinctive color and now sounds more bland and "international".
Can't stand Vib on Clar, or the thin, penetrating sound that so many used to get.
Marcellus is my Model of Beauty for the Clarinet.
. . . seems to be the predominant mode of playing these days. But I still can't help but feel nostalgic for the greater variety we used to have in this aspect of playing technique.
Yes, that's one way to talk about the prevalent modern clarinet sound in classical music. I see Kam was a Charles Neidich student at Juilliard, and his students have become a leading contingent in the clarinet world, so that may have a lot to do with their common approach.
I do think it has a lot to do with conceiving the clarinet mainly as a blending orchestral or chamber music instrument, but not a solo instrument, despite its potential power.
It was too strong a blanket statement!
Actually, I think a lot of modern players play too dark and dull, without the ringing quality I like.
Kam uses a cloth-type ligature that takes a lot out of the sound to emphasize smoothness.
But I also don't care for thin and bright, edgy, glassy, raw, you name it, I hate it...
Actually, Goldilocks is about my Fav.
Just right.
I've wondered about Meyer's sound. Guess I've never seen a video of her playing.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Me either, but it's obvious in the Weber or Spohr Cadenzas, for example.
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