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In Reply to: RE: I'll never understand that "thing" you have for Scherchen's Eroica posted by Chris from Lafayette on August 21, 2016 at 00:26:05
Ironically, it's Scherchen's insistence upon precise arriculation, tempi and rhythm that caught my ear. Scherchen is also attuned to B's momentary moods, which often turn on a dime, not to mention the humor.
Is everything perfect? No, but when it comes to making B live and breathe, IMHO Scherchen is Schnabel's equal.
You should revisit the mono set; at least the 5th and 8th. You can download them at Pristine. The precise articulation and rocksteady rhythm of the 1st mov't of the 5th is stunning and actually rekindled my love for the old warhorse.
The critic reminds me of those critics who dismiss Karajan as "too beautiful" or Haitink as "always dull." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. He picked up a soundbyte somewhere and ran with it.
PS, if there is one Scherchen dud, it's the 6th: too fussy.
Follow Ups:
Of course, as I suggested in the previous post, maybe the whole performance went by too fast. ;-)
So now you're saying it's the MONO set that's so good? I'm not claiming it's impossible (if there's one thing that Scherchen was, it was unpredictable!), but it's still hard for me to believe. Nevertheless, I may try to download that mono Fifth from Pristine at some point.
I guess you COULD say that Scherchen makes Beethoven breathe. However, as with Schnabel, I'm breathing too - sometimes really fast as I begin to panic at how soon the next technical mishap will show up. ;-)
Just to check my own memory, I'm listening to the stereo 3rd as I type. I'm not hearing clunkers, intonation problems or ragged entrances. Can you provide specific measures as examples?
Yes, the infamously fast last movt--the only Scherchen about which most people have read --oops--**heard** (ahem) is a slightly bumpy ride but not representative of the whole and mostly mono cycle.
In any case, do try the 5th someday: if it doesn't float your boat then Scherchen's B isn't for you.
Lately though, I've been enjoying Karajan's 60s cycle immensely, and I'm not a cycle kind of guy, nor was I expecting it to be so vital and alive.
It was when DG reissued all that Westminster stuff in their vaults - maybe only 15 years! ;-)
As I mentioned, I no longer have the recording, so, for the most part, I can't provide the measure numbers, but just as a general rule, I do remember a general sloppiness and lack of clarity to the playing that, at least to me, really stood out, not to mention a lack of weight in the orchestra's tone. And if there's one piece that needs weight, regardless of how fast you're going, it's the Eroica - think of inspired spot where the first violins linger, sotto voce, on that solitary A-flat at measure 157 in the slow movement, followed by a powerful fortissimo A-flat in cellos and basses in the next measure. That's one place I do remember as being wimpy and lame in the Scherchen performance - at least compared to other performances.
BTW, there's a story about Kempe rehearsing that same spot (measures 157-158 in the slow movement) with the RPO, where, instead of just giving the downbeat at 158, he moved his arm from side to side too (a gesture, I would think, that encouraged the players to go for maximum tone at this point). This confused one of the double bass players, who raised his hand and asked Kempe if he could avoid all that side-to-side motion because it was confusing for the double-bass player to determine exactly where the beat was at that point. Kempe kind of smiled at him and promised to be more clear at that spot in the actual performance. The actual performance rolled around, they got to measure 158, and Kempe conducted it exactly the same way he had in rehearsal! (This story was related by another member of the orchestra who said that Kempe was entirely right to conduct it this way and got exactly what was needed from the orchestra!)
BTW, if I have to go mono, I'd much prefer the Markevitch / Symphony of the Air performance (also on a DG reissue). Regarding those Karajan 60's performances on DG, I agree.
observation. Maybe digital remastering blurred everything. : )
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