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In Reply to: RE: Spot on, yet again. posted by rbolaw on July 06, 2016 at 16:49:08
I haven't either, but that wouldn't preclude producing a work in an older style that was every bit as compelling and "perfect".
And, BTW, what do you think of George Rochberg and his music? I don't see why someone like Rochberg can't use late Beethoven or Mahler as a jumping off point for a new composition. Sure, the resulting composition might be different from Beethoven or Mahler, but why would this be "disappointing"? Are you disappointed in Rochberg's music?
Follow Ups:
Sheesh, Chris, just because I point out that Stravinsky and Schoenberg have had an important impact on Western music and culture doesn't mean we should forget about Beethoven and his impact.
Like any successful artist, Rochberg built on the past to create his own unique voice. Yes, he used Beethoven and Mahler as jumping off points, and Ives and Boulez too, iirc. But he is a lot different from any of them, isn't he? I'm no Rochberg expert, but I've played his music, I like the Concord quartets, and I'm a big fan of the Concord String Quartet to whom they were dedicated.
And the context was:
"That's why people who see music of prior centuries as a pinnacle of absolute perfection are doomed to disappointment in anything written today. It will either be an inevitably imperfect copy or -- even more disappointing --"
So at a certain critical point in his life, Rochberg decided he would write in Beethoven's and Mahler's styles - and he did so because he genuinely felt that those styles were best suited to what he had to express (or so he said). And yet you don't seem to be disappointed with Rochberg?
He's still Rochberg. Just as Fritz Kreisler is still Fritz Kreisler in his faux baroque sonatas. George Crumb throws in a direct quote of Debussy in Makrokosmos II, but he's still Crumb.
Edits: 07/07/16
I'm not talking about quotations, I'm talking about composing in the style of an earlier period or another composer (or at least trying to), as Rochberg did. Forgive my being slow on the uptake, but I guess I'm hung up with your statement about disappointing imperfect copies (of earlier styles styles and composers).
No, no, silly. There is a reason Stravinsky said, "Don't borrow -- steal!" (Though apparently that quote originates from someone else? Sigh!) You have to make the work of past artists your own in some way, small or large, to be a successful artist. DHarvey said it best in this thread, I won't try to better him.
Stravinsky didn't just copy Pergolesi when he wrote Pulcinella. And let's face it -- that Italian baroque material Stravinsky used most likely wasn't even written by Pergolesi, who died young, and whose name was used by many others not trying to copy him either but merely hoping to use his famous name to boost the popularity of their own work. And Crumb didn't just copy Debussy. For me, Rochberg isn't on the same level as Crumb, and nowhere near Stravinsky, but he is an artist, not a mere copyist.
. . . is that he set out to write IN THE STYLE OF other (tonal) composers. IOW, Rochberg's use of earlier styles is FAR more chameleon-like than Stravinsky's use of "Pergolesi" (or even Kreisler's "in the style of" pieces). And as I think we both agree, Stravinsky did NOT set out to write in the style of "Pergolesi" - he merely borrowed a few tunes.
To illustrate the difference, some listeners hear Rochberg's Symphony No. 5 as a virtual re-write of Mahler's Ninth (!), although I admit that I don't hear it that way myself (despite certain sections being extremely evocative of Mahler's work). I guess the point is that modern composers can follow older styles EXTREMELY closely without becoming "mere copyists" and yet without becoming "disappointingly different" and losing their appeal to a given audience just because their style isn't sufficiently original or up to date. Having said that, I must admit that I don't find Rochberg's Fifth Symphony particularly compelling! (Maybe the work is "disappointingly different" just to me!) ;-)
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