|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
67.82.40.236
In Reply to: RE: Right you are, Rick W and Hornlover posted by Todd Krieger on May 16, 2016 at 11:38:11
I appreciate the courteous and articulate way you respond here and in general, although unfortunately I can't find a single thing in this particular post I can agree with, even in part, except that your own posts do indeed focus on your own opinions, which is quite true and reasonable on your part.
I think one of the great misinformation tragedies of our age is the proliferation of the conspiracy theory, of which a common example is the supposed media conspiracy to mislead the masses. This is an especially harmful myth, since it presumes the existence of a hostile, monolithic, non-existent institution of "the media" while distracting us from looking at individuals and entities that are savvy, wealthy and influential enough to manipulate media outlets and organizations for their own purposes.
Those media organizations are weaker than they ever have been in modern US history, and more vulnerable to this manipulation, since deregulation and the internet have left them in a desperate competitive scramble for audience share and attention.
If media organizations are less interested in promoting the arts for our general welfare, it's because they can no longer afford to waste their resources on such altruistic goals, not because of any conspiracy.
Follow Ups:
They do it for a living and Classical Music is not about the living. =:-0
The ad $$ are somewhere else so that's what the writers have to write about.
And please no 'Chinese Wall' nonsense. The contend of the 'ARTS' section of any newspaper is ad driven. Period. End of story.
Far sadder is the state of affairs with financial backing. The 'old rich'
are dying off fast.
If Gorden Getty ever kicks the bucket, the Symphony and Opera are done for here in San Francisco.
The Opera and Symphony board seem completely unaware of the changes in the financial power structure that is happening right under their noses.
All of the important living benefactors have one foot in the grave and the rest are donating from the great beyond via charitable trusts which are enjoying limited growth due to historically low interest rates.
You've hit the nail on the head with your comment about the comparative fragmentation and weakness of the various media organizations we all deal with. But I don't entirely disagree with Todd's post either. Certainly, for as long as I've been alive, I've seen a consistent march towards mediocrity in mass media entertainment. (In the TV world, it's telling that many of us get hundreds of channels and yet can't find a single program worth watching at a given time.) And while I don't entirely agree with Todd's contention that it's ALL the fault of the media, I do see the deterioration of the various media into nothing more than pop culture outlets as a factor in the general deterioration of mass culture in this country now.
OTOH, your prior statement that the "audience, except for a very small and ever-shrinking minority, doesn't want classical music. Not romantic, not modern, not tonal, not atonal. And increasingly, the audience doesn't want jazz either" is WAY too sweeping and alarmist, and does not account for the substantial differences in the numbers within the general classical audience who will attend music events and concerts in certain subcategories but not in others. IOW, your statement attempts make all your named subcategories equivalent in terms of their attractiveness to a general "classical music" audience, and IMHO, they're not - not by a long shot. If you got out into the suburbs, you would see this for yourself! ;-)
Of course, when it comes to the availability of recorded classical music, I think we're living in the best of all possible worlds right now, New York Times or no New York Times! ;-)
Incidentally, I participated in a concert earlier today which featured the winners of our local Etude Club Competition, an institution which has been in operation since the early 1900's. (I was accompanying the only violinist who won.) The various Etude Clubs around the country seem to have weathered the vagaries of the domination of pop culture well enough - probably thanks to some enlightened giving and patronage of the 1%. (See my post on the Hi-Rez forum here regarding the relationship of the Pentatone record label with Mr. Getty.) Anyway, one of the pianist winners played a "Fantasy on Themes from The Wizard of Oz" (uTube link below) - if only more composers wrote music like this, we wouldn't be in our current predicament! (Not really, of course - perhaps you have to be a pianist to appreciate it, but it was a nice discovery for me!)
First, I'll pick myself up off the floor after your comment about agreeing, even partly, with my post.
But before blaming various American media outlets for their mediocre content (which imo you could say for most of what is now on TV, for example, especially so called news programs) remember the private free enterprise system that many of us seem to insist is invariably superior to government agencies or government regulation? Well, congratulations: Beginning in the 1980s, we got radio and tv deregulation, and more recently major cuts in government funded radio and tv stations. The internet is the unregulated wild west where competition for the audience reigns supreme. The traditional newspapers and radio and tv networks now have a multitude of competitors. Content is tightly controlled by the profit motive, and the best cultural or educational programming isn't necessarily the most profitable.
As for the popularity of classical music, I have many family members and friends who are pro classical musicians, and I've been on the boards of two classical music organizations. But I've spent my own career in a business unrelated to music. And I've learned, yes there are people who are interested in classical music, just as there are people who go fly fishing, or sail catamarans, or play squash, or restore antique cars. And they get together in groups and clubs, too. But those clubs exist so the tiny minority of people who do those things can find each other.
"I think one of the great misinformation tragedies of our age is the proliferation of the conspiracy theory, of which a common example is the supposed media conspiracy to mislead the masses."
I'm not a believer of conspiracy theories in general. (I'm not a birther, I'm not a 9/11 truther, I don't buy into a lot of theories mentioned on "Infowars.com" or "Coast to Coast AM".... ) But the one I brought forth is more from personal experience..... I didn't know this was a widespread belief. Although the term "dumbing down" is a conspiracy theory related to this, which is one I do believe is true.
"This is an especially harmful myth, since it presumes the existence of a hostile, monolithic, non-existent institution of 'the media'....."
I think this happens to be so true, I'd be willing to debate this in public. I think this is also at the core of the "political bias" in the media.
There is a rarely-disclosed entity running 90 percent of the American media.... It's only six corporations total. Just six.
If you think it's a "harmful myth", oh well........
"while distracting us from looking at individuals and entities that are savvy, wealthy and influential enough to manipulate media outlets and organizations for their own purposes."
Those "six corporations" I mentioned above. See link.
"Those media organizations are weaker than they ever have been in modern US history, and more vulnerable to this manipulation, since deregulation and the internet have left them in a desperate competitive scramble for audience share and attention."
To the contrary.... The link below..... This is incontrovertible evidence. Even those running the media are not denying this.
"If media organizations are less interested in promoting the arts for our general welfare, it's because they can no longer afford to waste their resources on such altruistic goals, not because of any conspiracy."
Some pundits have even called our media "state run"..... The evidence is against your claims.
Back to the music issue here.... You should ask yourself..... Why is classical music in Japan like it was here back in the 1950s and 1960s? Why did it fade away in our country but remain strong in a lot of foreign countries? I don't think such loss of interest could have even occurred without a monolithic national media helping it along.
Good to know we agree on something! It is absolutely true that deregulation of the news media resulted in a great wave consolidation. And it pays to look to see who is behind those few remaining major players -- like Rupert Murdoch. But the music industry, and more generally the entertainment industry, is not quite the same as the news industry. Yes, there are some big players -- not exactly the same players as the big six in that article you linked -- but they are motivated almost entirely by profit, which is audience driven.
Even the news media giants you mention generally operate by finding an audience and then telling them what they want to hear. Edit: Of course, some would argue that is the opposite of news, which is or ought to be telling people what's really happening whether they want to hear it or not.
Edits: 05/16/16
I don't know if "regulation" or "deregulation" is the actual issue..... Somehow an "infrastructure" was built, in which the audience is given a "package" of entertainment...... There is no choice of individual programming...... It's like McDonald's "Happy Meals" of entertainment. For everyone.
The key to breaking the news monolith is the free markets offering "a la carte" services, if you will.... But no government will ever push or subsidize that.
News coverage, especially broadcast news coverage, was vastly better and more neutral back when there truly was a regulated monolith. Quality and neutrality may not have been profitable, but the big three networks could afford the government's fair reporting requirements due to their profitable monopoly over the limited broadcast frequencies. That was the system that produced Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, Dan Rather, etc.
With newspapers, a publisher named Adolph Ochs took over the openly politically-biased, bankrupt NY Times in 1896 and imposed the concept of neutral journalism, eliminating conflicts of interest and promoting the "newspaper of record" image. The Times built a mighty empire and could afford a fair degree of neutrality. But that empire essentially collapsed with the internet. One of the first things to go was the Times-owned classical radio station WQXR. The call letters live on as a listener-supported station on a weaker frequency.
Today, American news is market-driven and entertainment-oriented, audience share is all that matters, and neutrality is an unaffordable luxury.
Not about the conspiracy aspect so much, but about the role media play in shaping audience receptiveness and expectations.
In Europe and Asia, classical music is widely available on radio, television and public performances -- all because the state government supports and funds it. It is considered (along with other arts) a cultural investment. And people go/watch/listen because they grew up in a society that values and funds its cultural heritage of music and the arts.
Every person I have ever met from Germany is very familiar with their classical music heritage. In the U.S., you are lucky to find anyone who can even name an American composer. Maybe, if you prompt them, they'll say "Gershwin? Oh, I heard of him," because they saw the American In Paris movie or something. Is it a media conspiracy? No, it's a product of the societal decision as to the arts.
Part of the larger problem is that we never really had a strong *American* music culture with lots of *American* classical composers that everyone grows up listening to. And the government has never invested in supporting the arts (with the exception of a few museums and a few assorted grants). That would be "socialism."
So, it does not surprise me that classical music reviewing and criticism has declined to the point of puff pieces about Lang Lang and Yuja Wang. Previous decade it was Bell and Hahn who got the press.
"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
"In Europe and Asia, classical music is widely available on radio, television and public performances -- all because the state government supports and funds it."
While the governments there are "socialist" like ours has become, I think the interest running the politics in those countries are not "removed from the people" like it has become in the US. (Although this appears to be changing rapidly for the worse.)
"Every person I have ever met from Germany is very familiar with their classical music heritage. In the U.S., you are lucky to find anyone who can even name an American composer. Maybe, if you prompt them, they'll say 'Gershwin? Oh, I heard of him,' because they saw the American In Paris movie or something. Is it a media conspiracy? No, it's a product of the societal decision as to the arts."
Heck with Gershwin..... Most people under 30 don't even know who Jimi Hendrix is..... Or Miles Davis..... Or Charlie Daniels..... The only thing the national media feeds the masses today are the recent "prefab" acts that fit its "cultural formula". A formula which again I say is for shaping preference, rather than reflecting it.
"Part of the larger problem is that we never really had a strong *American* music culture with lots of *American* classical composers that everyone grows up listening to. And the government has never invested in supporting the arts (with the exception of a few museums and a few assorted grants). That would be 'socialism.'"
Some socialism has some residual interest in the masses, but not all. (Socialism is rule by elites, with varying "freedoms/privileges" allotted to the people.) With some of the chaos with the "refugees" from Syria "immigrating" to Europe, the cultures in European nations have also begun to decline rapidly.
"So, it does not surprise me that classical music reviewing and criticism has declined to the point of puff pieces about Lang Lang and Yuja Wang. Previous decade it was Bell and Hahn who got the press."
Like other types of music, what the media has pumped up in the classical world have not exactly impressed me. Like I've stated many times here, I believe Japan's NHK symphony is the finest symphonic institution in the world today. Yet over 99.9 percent of Americans and most Europeans have probably never even heard of this institution.
I didn't mean to imply that a country has to be socialist in order to support the arts. I was just voicing why I thought government support for the arts never has had any traction in the U.S. The argument commonly heard is that it is "socialism" for tax dollars to support the arts. In the "free market" (as if one exists), if the arts have value, people will voluntarily contribute or pay to support them. What we have now is the result of that thinking.
"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: