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In Reply to: RE: Klassy. posted by 1845 on April 29, 2016 at 06:27:22
That's NOT an accomplishment.
That's little more than technology. With multitrack recording, any half way compentant clown can become a whole orchestra.
In the 70s, doing that sort of thing was commonplace in rock. In fact, some producers had to warn rockers not to overdub too much, since they'd have to perform there crap in concert.
But, first with analog "tracking" and now with digital, pop/rockers can pre-record everything, and fake playing/singing live. And boy, they sure do.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
Follow Ups:
That's quite an indictment from a guy who admits that he can't even play ONE instrument worth a damn, let alone half a dozen of them really well. You realize there was no beat detective or auto-tune in 1978, I'm sure. To compare Prince to every pop music hack on the planet because he chose to play all the instruments here is silly. I agree the result of such efforts in USUALLY not very impressive--either because the skill on all instruments is too clearly rudimentary or because (more commonly) it's beyond most musicians to multitrack in this way and achieve a sound that feels like a real band that's very well locked-in. A whole band can't play with the exact same concept of time and achieve a good feel overall--it takes push and pull between the various members to make music that "feels" exciting and real. Efforts of this nature almost always sound like what they are--one guy playing everything through the same limited lens without deep understanding of the distinct roles each part really ought to play. But there is no hint of that on the Prince record. It sounds like a real band with a high level of playing--and more remarkably, interaction--across the board. You seem to be incapable of grasping this, deeming all such efforts equally valueless no matter what the actual outcome is.
In your silly two-step test above, you suggest that if music isn't "the best you ever heard", then it's shit that shouldn't be given a second thought. Here, we see you suggest that certain processes or style alone are enough to disqualify any music from ever being any good at all. These are among the ridiculous cornerstones of your belligerent, bigoted musical philosophy. Recently, you suggested that you're on a mission to educate the unwashed masses on this board but at least the moderator is a real musician. Well, a good number of the people here you are constantly at odds with are also degreed professional or former professional musicians, and that includes myself. Your prejudices force you to contradict yourself--and common sense--at every turn.
It may surprise you to learn that I have never really been a fan of Prince's music--at least I didn't think so. I too was distracted and offended by the non-musical parts of his total presentation--aspects that other "artists" have seized on without also having the actually musical stuff together. It bothered me that members of his band had to dance choreographed routines while they played--perhaps because I knew this could keep me out of such a band despite my playing ability. I still don't like the sound of most 80's vintage keyboards, so that has always been a minus for me too. With his passing, the whole array of his music is almost inescapable at the moment, and I now see a lot more to like in his music--and even his showmanship--than I ever have before. So I guess my own biases led to some losses for myself here.
Is the track I referred to in GEO's post here the best music I ever heard? No. Is it the best effort of it's kind I've ever heard? To date, I would have to say yes. I've never heard a "one-man record" that shows as much skill and total understanding of the various roles in a band that this first album from Prince shows. I would never have guessed this to be a one-man record if I hadn't been told. Add his age at the time and it's even more impressive. Your dismissive comments lead me to wonder if you've bothered to actually listen to the track even now. One thing I can say with the highest confidence--you don't know nearly as much about music as you think you do, and no amount of bluster and vitriol will ever manage to disguise that.
dh
and honest.
You accuse me of bluster and vitriol and the worst behavior, yet you do exactly the same thing.
Furthermore, what's a good jazz guy such as you doing fooling around with this rock crap? Back in the day, jazz people - musicians and listners [when they were jazz-sophisticated, not head-bobbing, cRap-listening dummies] HATED rock.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
So true.
Absolutely true.
But --- most others know even less.
Even so-called musicians.
As for Breeentch, the question remains: are his tunes any good, even by the dumb, low standards of pop/rock entertainment [I just couldn't type out the word music right there].
Severius! Supremus Invictus
I was talking with a friend and former Harman colleague (an automotive systems engineer) just today about Prince, and we both felt about the same. The SOUND on his most popular records to us is overly bright; "sharp" is the word my friend used. I spun side 2 of Purple Rain yesterday and still find it to sound a bit on the shrill side. We agreed, however, that the actual CONTENT of his music was pretty damn good.
I don't know if you saw my post below in response to GEO (WOW!). There, I outlined my perennial nitpicks with Prince's music, including the aforementioned sound issues as well as some melodic habits he had that I never cared for. I regularly hear his songs and notice things that I would definitely do differently as a writer. But as I also mentioned in that other post, there are often good utilitarian reasons for going the route he tended to go in that regard, so I don't feel it's really fair to hold that too much against him.
Let's put that aside. Listen to his lines and chord changes, his vocal prowess on any number of live appearances on YouTube. Ever notice how many of his songs have truly startling harmonic surprises along the way? This is not inept, uninformed writing--not by a longshot. I'm not an expert on his canon (as should be obvious by now), but I'll be checking out a lot more of his work in the future than I have in the past because I now see there was a lot more there than I realized for a very long time. I have very high confidence that Prince will be remembered as one of the all-time greats of American pop music, despite the fact that he was never a favorite artist of mine. What makes him special is not just his skill as a writer, or a player of many instruments (which, alone, is truly astonishing), or a performer, or a producer. It's the fact that he was so damn good at every one of those things. He was a WHOLE musician and then some. There are plenty of problems with modern pop music, but guys like Prince is not one of them.
Well, this is a nicer conversation than we started with. You obviously care about music--that has always been evident. Please try to remember that the rest of us here do too--or we wouldn't be here. There's no reason to attack others over their tastes, or the music of anyone so viciously. When it's getting personal, that should be a red flag. These things have the effect if invalidating the good things you have to say and the reasonable questions you might ask after settling down a bit. They can color and limit your own views as well. It would be nice to see you calm down a bit and stop alienating everyone. I think everyone would be happier and better off, especially you.
Pacem.
dh
And, actually all of the points you've made here.
You make well reasoned arguments, and doing so, you've shown me the foolishness of the tone and content of my posts. I'm reconsidering.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
.
Do the world a favor and stop using up precious oxygen. Get off the planet [any way you wish].
Severius! Supremus Invictus
Then turn aroun and defend Brucknerian banality with descriptions like "elemental" or "primal".Really....
Edits: 05/01/16
Breeentch? Is that a term used by tribal guys that rape Persian boys for fun?
N
A good friend was one of those guys...it was just a way of life and unfortunate for all parties involved. I never knew much about it.
I'm about as far from a Bruckner expert as it gets.
Newey's omissions in his response to your drug use post below are par for the course. I like the way he totally ignores the opium users and the fact that his boy Beethoven died with cirrhosis. And then he ridicules the idea that prescription drugs can be abused....right after having accused Prince of doing exactly that. A tangle of bullshit.
dh
Choo got it, mane.
Classical music - REAL MUSIC.
Always.
ALWAYS AND FOREVER.
From now until eternity.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
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