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In Reply to: RE: Trheadgill, Coleman & Marsalis--weird posted by Paul_A on April 20, 2016 at 09:35:39
What did he do that won the Pulitzer?
Ornette was a pure Genius.
Don't know anything about Threadgil,
but the Chicago stuff I've heard, incl World Sax Qt is a bit rough and raw for me.
Follow Ups:
"Fate is being kind to me. Fate doesn't want me to be too famous too young." -Duke Ellington at age 66 in 1965.
He was awarded a "special" one posthumously in 1999, two years AFTER Wynton Marsalis won the standard variety.
Threadgill has been one of the most interesting composers of the past 25 years -
consistent in his vision, sure of his craft, steady with his determination and crazy with
some rhythm juju!
HE certainly did NOT get it for being too famous, young OR old.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
He was trying to be the educator, people wanted to hear the Music.
It was pretentious to the extreme, and very, very dead and boring.
Their Prayer-Huddle before going onstage was annoying too.
I only liked him on I Fell in Love w/Blakey, he was a teenager then.
Don't look to me to defend Wynton! His compositional approach the last 20 years or so (for which he won his pulitzer,) seems like warmed over Ellingtonianisms in the service of essentially conservative politics hiding behind the face of Liberalism. He does have great chops ("Just think," Lester Bowie said of Wynton, "with his chops and my brain . . .,) but that doesn't add up to his position in the jazz world (corporate sponsored devision, that is.)
Ornette is clearly a genius, and I think Threadgill may be as well. Like his fellow Chicagoans and students of Muhal Richard Abrams Anthony Braxton (MacArthur recipient) and Wadada Leo Smith (Pulitzer prize finalist two years ago,) he has developed rigorous, systematic, and highly individualist methods of compositions that integrate the notated and improvisational strategies that have stood as the opposing polls of jazz practice. And he has created a huge body of work in various contexts incorporating jazz, blues, marches, as well serialism and modern "classical" music stratagies, yet his music maintains an identifiably unique and individual sound.
Musicians coming out of the freedom jazz movements of the 60's are often lumped together in one bag, but they collectively encompass a whole world of sonic, emotional, and artistic expression. The WSQ has no real Chicago connection, other than its members have often performed with various members of the A.A.C.M. and are respected adjuncts to that community. Their first performance was here in New Orleans, presented by free jazz sax legend Kidd Jordan. Kidd is still, at 81, a flame thrower of a saxophonist, but it is important to realize that so much of the A.A.C.M. (of whidh Kidd too is an esteemed associate) energies were devoted to composition and organization, and the major artists associated with them (Art Ensemble of Chicago, Anthoy Braxton, Henry Threadgill, Muhal Richard Abrams, George Lewis, Wadada Leo Smith) are best known as composers and not "free jazz" blowers. The freedom they demanded was to not be be bound by essentialist notions of what an African-American musicans should be-either notions supplied by the racist art world , the commerical music world, or by conservative Black ideologues (i.e, Albert Murray and Stanley Crouch, and their diciple Wynton Marsalis)
That record alone is a bit of a redeemer...and what makes his subsequent conservatism so frustrating, IMHO.
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