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In Reply to: RE: Can you talk about what you like, and not trash what you don't? posted by oldmkvi on April 15, 2016 at 08:27:49
I grew up in the 1970's. I got to see the full brunt of anti-Romantic hatred that every radicalist* heaped on anything remotely tonal. You and your brothers-in-arms have a lot to answer for.
As I've said in the past, 20th cent "modernism" [which isn't modern any more since we're in the 21st cent now [a fact that seems to escape all serialist/radicalists] and all of that wacked-out, grinding atonality and weirdness now sounds so DATED, is a failed movement much like its political twin, communism. Sure, both of them lurk around in the periphery, like mold, or child molesters, but their day has mostly passed.
* Searching through this site, I've happened on the term "radicalism". It fits the whole movement ideally. No longer modern, but still radical in every way. I'm adopting "radicalism", going forward.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
Follow Ups:
I've been an Orchestral Musician for more years than I care divulge.
And a Composer.
I NEVER think about that drivel.
Never.
As you say, the original modernists are part of music history now. And you can easily hear their lasting influence, for example on movie and TV scores and popular music. Stravinsky and Varèse are obvious examples. Even the music of later modernists (or post-modernists), like Philip Glass and Arvo Pärt, has already become a permanent part of our popular culture. I brought my children to the movies last weekend, and a preview for the latest Ice Age movie prominently features Pärt's Spiegel im Spiegel.
I can't see why you're so obsessed with "failures". Beethoven had plenty of bad, mediocre, or good but not great, contemporaries who are now largely forgotten. The reactionaries of any era have plenty to complain about, since striking out in new directions always yields plenty of failed experiments. You just happened to be alive for the latter part of the modernist era. So loosen your collar, pour yourself a drink and get past it.
The 20th cent tonalists have had some influence - chiefly, as you point out, in cinema music, although the influence of traditionalists [at least as far as movie scores are concerned] is far greater. John Williams had so far permanently changed the way movies are scored to this day.
There's zero influence of any radicalists on pop-rock music. No connection whatsoever.
Movies are proof of pragmatism. Movies tend to use what works for effect, not for the concert hall. Minimalism is highly effective for certain television and cinema settings.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
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They use whatever works.
But, you'd have to be deaf and dumb [mostly the latter] to not hear how the tonal symphonic side of Williams have changed movie scoring. I estimate that every 3rd or 4th movie features such scoring. And, almost any big budget picture has tonal symphonic music as its centerpiece.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
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They use whatever works, and will help sell the picture, or create an effect, or enhance the plot, etc. etc. etc.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
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/
No matter -- you see the impact some of these composers have had. We aren't going back to Korngold and Romberg. Or Rachmaninoff and Scriabin. Or Bruckner and Reger. (Much as I am a fan of all of them.) Western music has permanently changed. And btw, what goes on outside the concert hall does not stay outside the concert hall.
... "Revolution 9", perhaps most obviously.Lennon, McCartney, Ono were big fans of Cage's experimental music. "Revolution 9" was an unabashed "homage" to Cage's "Variations IV"(1965).
We do know that "radical" classical music found a better foothold in film music than it did in pop music.
Has this radical film music somehow affected the way that pop music has developed *in an unconscious way* to some degree? The answer is probably "yes", given the popularity of all things related to TV and movies in the 20th century and beyond.
Edits: 04/17/16 04/20/16 04/20/16
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