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In Reply to: RE: Simone Young Bruckner posted by merlinus on July 11, 2015 at 18:39:46
I used to have the Inbal/Frankfurt RSO performance of it on Teldec. I think Bruckner was right to give the work another go with the 1890 edition. That loud first-movement ending in the '87 version is not nearly as effective (or as moving!) as the one in the '90 version (at least IMHO). I have not yet heard Mrs. Young's recording (although I'm interested in it, not least because of its hi-rez multi-channel incarnation), so maybe she'll convince me of the worth of this '87 "Urfassung"! ;-)
Follow Ups:
Having just compared Simone Young's recording of the original version of Bruckner 8 with Pierre Boulez's Haas, the latter is clearly better, for me. The pianissimo ending to the first movement in the revision is far more moving than the triple forte of the original.
Also, the recapitulation and coda of the revision is a big improvement over the original. Much more frissons and emotions.
The different trio is not such a big deal, however.
What he did was to take the 1890 version, which was an improvement overall from the 1887 version (but which contained cuts that Bruckner made, some say at the instigation of his "friends", to improve the work's "structure"), and add back some of the parts of the 1887 version which Bruckner had cut (e.g., an episode in the finale). So I think that the Haas version contains the most music of any of the versions (not entirely sure), but it also is really a kind of conflation of the 1887 and 1890 versions that Bruckner did not do himself (nor did he approve of it - obviously, since it was done well after his death). There are two Nowak versions for this symphony: one for the 1887 version (the one which Mrs. Young uses), and one for the 1890 edition, with the Haas version existing in a kind of no man's land in between the two versions. Speaking for myself, I like the Haas version AND the Nowak 1890 version.
Now here's an added wrinkle: the Haas editions are, if you will, tainted by their association with Nazi Germany. (They generally came out during the Hitler years, and Haas himself was evidently a party member.) The Wikipedia article sums it all up in a pretty succinct fashion:
I too have misgivings about the ending of the first movement, but in some ways it presages the finale.
Also, the ending of the symphony is a bit more dramatic in the revised version, but this one is quite excellent.
Got it playing on the main system via AirPlay.
Finally, with help from a new Airport Express which is hard-wired via Ethernet cable to the Marantz NA-7004(which has no WiFi).
Still have no Ethernet running up to the listening room so the Airport Express may end up being the final solution.
So far not dropouts or gapless hassles. Yet. And the 'smart TV' likes the better WiFi signal that the AirPort Express provides so there is that.
Good recordings like this one certainly sound better than bad ones so the system must be working.
It's also on Spotify, if you can stand MP3.
I'd say it's worth a listen. Amazon has it for about $20 plus media mail shipping.
Another source for streaming of these recordings is Classicsonline.com.
I listened to #8 last night and thought it was well done. The recording is good and I thought the orchestra played very well. I will listen to #7 later today
Alan
Look forward to hearing about your experience with #7. I was very taken by it, except there seemed to be some flagging of the energy near the end.
Of course, that may be entirely me! Or perhaps the original version used in the recording.
Just listened to #7. I am not an expert on Bruckner symphonies but it seems to me that the last movement as performed here is really anti climatic to the rest of the symphony. It does seem to just peter out with no real climax. It could be the version. This may have been changed in Bruckners later versions. I will have to check this out. Otherwise I really think this is an excellent performance and sonics are good
Alan
So now might be a good time to remind listeners and readers about John F. Berkey's "abruckner.com" site, which, once you start poking around in it, will amaze you. Evidently a true labor of love, this site is without a doubt a thing of wonder!
As this relates to which version of the Seventh is used on Mrs. Young's recording, the site states clearly that she uses the 1885 (original version), as edited by Leopold Nowak. It used to be that about half the conductors would use the (Robert) Haas version of the Seventh, while the other half would use Nowak's. It seems to me that I've been seeing Nowak a little more recently (maybe 60/40). Both the Haas and the Nowak editions are based on the original 1885 version - the main differences are that:These differences rise to the level of moral equivalents of war for some listeners - I'm not kidding! I read one biography of Bruckner where the writer asserted that to include the bass drum, cymbal and triangle parts in the slow movement climax of the Seventh was a moral offense against Bruckner's music! (I guess the guy conveniently forgot that Bruckner DOES include bass drum and cymbal crashes - no doubt about it - at a similar spot in the slow movement of the Eighth!) ;-)
- one of them (now I forget which one!) includes tempo changes within the movements (especially noticeable in the last movement) which some people consider suspect
- at the climax of the second movement, one of them (again, I forget which one) includes parts for cymbal, bass drum and triangle, which are in the manuscript, but which are accompanied by a presumably later notation which says "gilt nicht" (not valid)
Ain't Bruckner fun? BTW, here's the link:
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