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In Reply to: RE: Would that Reiner Zarathustra be the '54 or '62? posted by David Smith on July 09, 2015 at 06:31:14
I wouldn't downplay the ability of the world's best orchestral players to make intonation adjustments, at least nowadays. I've heard some amazing demonstrations of what they can do.
You are right that the relentlessly sharper orchestras of continental Europe used to be a big issue. But intonation virtuosity has become a much bigger deal since the advent of microtonal scales, pitch bending and other modern extended techniques. And playing sharp has become much more universal. I recently performed with some current Juilliard and Mannes wind students, who played at a perfectly consistent, in tune a = 445, were very critical of my difficulty in matching them, and amazed when I dared suggested they were playing sharp. With some practice I was able to reach in my bag of tricks to salvage the situation, but a top flutist would have done that more quickly and easily. (It was a huge relief the next time I played with a different group that wasn't so sharp.)
In this case, I suspect Reiner didn't want to tune the entire piece so much flatter just to accommodate the organ introduction, and back in 1954 people were less uptight about such things.
Follow Ups:
Well, I'm guessing they've played that way before and were doing so under their own volition. Had you asked them to play at 432 and have it recorded with their exposed passages for commercial distribution I'm not sure they'd be happy about that. It's one thing to get accustomed to a particular tuning, and another to have to change pitch in a critical situation.
In any case, who knows what happened. I'm just doubtful an orchestra would agree to tune differently for a recording unless it was planned that way well in advance.
Dave
How true. But once those kids get into the real world, where classical music jobs are hard to come by, they'll see they do have to be prepared to play at a=432, if they want to play in a HIP baroque ensemble, for example. (Of course, high quality baroque instrument replicas are designed to be played at various historical nonstandard pitches.)
And you are also obviously right that Reiner and the CSO wouldn't tune a quarter tone or more flat to match that organ on the spur of the moment. But I believe if Reiner demanded it in advance, they would have been prepared to do it.
I have a few friends that do HIP, I'm not an expert on that scene but my understanding is that one doesn't dabble in it, in part because of the pitch, it's a specialized approach that requires significant dedication. But perhaps some are able to adapt like that now on the fly. I know that for myself it's a major PITA far beyond adjusting the tuning of the instrument. But it sounds like we're both in agreement there.
Dave
Really great selections- All.
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