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In Reply to: RE: I'm Not Blaming NPR......... posted by Todd Krieger on November 09, 2014 at 12:57:20
My 15 year old daughter does not know the difference between a banjo and a guitar. She likes pop music..., on the way to school last week I asked her why do singers use Auto - tune and I waited for her to ask me what is was.... To my shock she said everyone uses auto -tune.... I asked her how did she know about Auto tune.... She said everyone knows it..,she said singers use it to sound "modern"😀. I was stunned that she knew what it was.
Follow Ups:
"My 15 year old daughter does not know the difference between a banjo and a guitar. She likes pop music..., on the way to school last week I asked her why do singers use Auto - tune and I waited for her to ask me what is was.... To my shock she said everyone uses auto -tune...."
No shocker there........
"I asked her how did she know about Auto tune.... She said everyone knows it..,she said singers use it to sound 'modern'😀. I was stunned that she knew what it was."
I've encountered singers even younger, who've stated the exact same thing.
It's a culture that seems harmless on the surface, but I think will in time ruin music as we know it. Unless listeners are familiar with the songs being played, they'll have a hard time recognizing who's singing what. Auto-Tune takes the unique character of an individual singer's voice and makes it sound like every other modern singer.
The worst part of Auto-Tune is that it makes singers think they can sound great with minimal training. As I stated many times before, this is why we no longer have great singers like we once had. And singers who would likely refuse to sing in public without it. In my opinion, it is the single worst thing to happen to music, during my lifetime.
Teenagers identify it easily but NPR producers and T-Pain did not know someone slipped it in without their knowledge?
Edits: 11/10/14 11/10/14
"Teenagers identify it easily but NPR producers and T-Pain did not know someone slipped it in without their knowledge?"I don't know whether the NPR producers or T-Pain knew or not..... I was just conveying a possible scenario.
And we don't know what the video had exactly gone through between performance and production.... It's in essence "musical sausage"......
There are a lot of possibilities, and even someone taking part in the production probably doesn't know the whole story.....
There is yet another possibility. There might have been a production application (software) applying Auto-Tune, without knowledge of anyone in the performance or production chain. This could explain why there are quite a few clips out there in which no Auto-Tune is claimed, yet listeners hear it easily.
I do think whatever takes place between the session and final production should be monitored a LOT more closely. For I do believe there are a lot of productions out there which were never intended to have Auto-Tune applied to them, but have it applied nonetheless.
Edits: 11/10/14
That is.........you are just plain wrong. Unfortunately, you consider yourself omniscient regarding determining use of auto-tune.
Edits: 11/11/14
"That is.........you are just plain wrong."Keep saying it.... I'm enjoying it.....
I guess some people think if they iterate something enough times, it somehow becomes true fact.
About six people told me they'll no longer post on this board..... They've been so turned off what one of them calls, the "Auto-Tune Thugs". More and more, I'm talking music with great people on Twitter.... And my Music2Die4 page on YouTube. I've gotten more thanks from people who now know what to listen for and avoid Auto-Tuned music. There is a lot of great music out there.... We just need to discover it.
FYI, this clip is an example of why I despise Auto-Tune.... The singer, so imperfect, yet so achingly beautiful..... Great music is so fragile, anyone who thinks messing with it being OK is clueless, in my humble opinion. It's a freaking shame that there's hardly anything like this today in the English-speaking world.
Edits: 11/11/14
Coming from you, this cracked me up :-)
"I guess some people think if they iterate something enough times, it somehow becomes true fact."
So Todd, who are those six inmates?
Glad you think you won.... [-;
nt
What was your case anyway? I don't think you've actually stated one.Note that "my comments are baseless" would not be an acceptable answer. I already know you've claimed that. I just want to know what you've deduced to come to that conclusion.
Note that "I've already stated my case" is also not an acceptable answer.
Maybe if you state your case clearly, I would learn something. Thank you.
Edits: 11/12/14
In this particular case the info attached to the clip states T-Pain's performance was sans auto-tune....
"We asked him if he'd grace the Tiny Desk without any embellishment or effects to show what's really made his career: his voice, and those songs."
On the clip T-Pain jokes about it - to paraphrase - where's the auto-tune hiding? I do not hear auto-tune on the clip, nor do some others. In fact, I do not see anyone else who posted in the thread saying they hear that it was auto-tuned - other than you, that is. You claim it was in fact employed, and as per usual, are utterly convinced of your infallibility - which in and of itself should give a reasonable person pause.
Not content to make auto-tune claims regarding the clip, you launch into a conspiracy theory about how auto-tune may have been employed surreptitiously post-production, of course totally absent any actual facts or knowledge. Par for your course.
Quite a while ago you anointed yourself an auto-tune expert. I see no reason whatsoever to think you are, and previous posts (IIRC some that included recorded examples) claiming something was auto-tuned did zilch to change my mind about your "expertise". Your ludicrous episode with the Dudamel/Szell thing has, to say the least, made your later assertions suspect.
Your attacks on David are laughable and ignorant. To think he has some vested interested in applying, concealing the use of, or sanctioning the use of auto-tune is so far past absurd that it enters the twilight zone. Maybe if you had a clue about where David is at as a musician you might have avoided such idiocy. You apparently know zilch about rbolaw either, and hence either don't know how stupid it is to refer to him and myself as David's "henchmen", or can not control your emotions enough to avoid such lameness.
Todd, I basically agree with you about the negatives of auto-tune. But you are VERY far from an omniscient authority.
If people posted disagreement like this, this thread wouldn't have gotten one tenth this size.......
nt
Telling people to burn in hell? Accusing them of being part of a conspiracy to destroy music? Calling them deceitful? Calling them "henchmen"? Trust me, David, you wouldn't want to hire me as a henchman. My rates are very high.
Edit: BTW, I'm just as averse as Todd to most of today's electronically processed popular music.
Edits: 11/13/14
"Telling people to burn in hell? Accusing them of being part of a conspiracy to destroy music? Calling them deceitful? Calling them 'henchmen'?"What warrants starting a thread, with a person's name in the title? This was an blatant attempt to instigate and intimidate someone over a comment about Auto-Tune. So the above responses are very warranted.
You condone the instigation, then whine about the retaliation. That's the trait of a coward.
Too often, people run away from bullies.... They ought be confronted, to where the bullies themselves get very, very upset. Over the very things they happen to perpetrate. For they should never get away with dictating what people can or cannot say.
Edits: 11/13/14
I'm sorry, Todd, but when others politely disagree with your endlessly repeated conspiracy theories, you call this "bullying" or an attempt to silence you. Trust me, nobody thinks they can silence you.
What's worse, you respond with personal attacks and accusations, and name-calling, and even "threats" to increase your Auto-Tune posts, as if you are intimidating anyone.
Well, you can continue on with this stuff. Like you, I do not enjoy much of today's electronically processed popular music. The work of T-Pain in general does not interest me. I hope it is a passing fad. But I disagree with your grand conspiracy theory that extends even to classical music. That's all. Call me a coward if you wish, I still disagree, and will continue to say so if I want.
Not a Katy Perry concert, actual live music.
Dave
I've never experienced live music..... Maybe I'll try it someday.
Now I need to sell my Katy Perry tickets.... Any takers?
Your suggestions are very valuable.... Thanks much.
Auto-Tune Goblins!
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