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In Reply to: RE: Brahms One, Cleveland Orchestra/Franz Welser Most .... [yt] posted by Todd Krieger on September 10, 2014 at 23:38:11
Yes, this Brahms 1 from the Proms was tepid. However, this season in CLeveland he conducted a wonderful Brahms 4 and Violin Concerto (with Julia Fischer) which were recorded for BluRay release. I was in the hall, and I am definitely buying this BD.
I think they are also going to recorded the piano concertos with Bronfman this season.
Concerning Todd's complaints about the musicians' posture or movements or whatever he was objecting to, frankly I don't care if they tango--if that's what it takes to get the quality of playing we regularly get at Severance Hall for nearly every conductor. The musicians do it because they are into the music--this is not Lang Lang-style attention getting antic behavior.
Follow Ups:
I listened to the CO broadcast of Fischer's performance of the Brahms VC on the WCLV site. It was nothing special. (I heard some major intonation problems in this performance. Will be interesting if they get "fixed" on the Blu-Ray.)
I guess I wouln't have complained about the swaying had the sound produced been better....... But I have noticed over the years a negative correlation between excessive swaying by a musician and the quality of sound produced. In moderation, it's OK. I just hope I don't encounter a story of a violinist sent to the hospital as the result an inadvertent head-butt or poke in the eye with a bow.....
Todd--You are of course welcome to your opinions about the Cleveland Orcxhestra and the performances they gave, but I am sure you are aware that much of what you say is highly idiosyncratic. You complain in a thread about Szell's Beethoven 7 that all of Szell's Beethoven symphony recordings except #7 are bad, yet they have been in the catalog without pause for 50 years and have been widely praised by many, many critics. You complain about the sound of the current orchestra, but I have not seen any criticism of this from any reputable reviewer, nor have I heard anything negative about the soound of the orchestra or the quality of their playing from many professional musicians I know. Yes, the opinions on FWM and opinions on interpretations vary widely.
No musicians have been harmed by any other player moving around during a performance. And I doubt if anyone will be hustled offstage to the Cleveland Clinic any time soon...
Concerning the concert with the Brahms 4 and violin concerto (Fischer, FWM), I attended the Thursday night concert, which was recorded for video release. There was a second performance of that program during the same weekend. I have no idea which performance WCLV broadcast, but I heard excellent intonation from Fischer and an exciting performance from everyone on stage, except for one botched entrance by the orchestra.
Here is what one professional musician wrote (and his opinion counts for more than that of our current idiotic Plain Dealer critic):
---------review by Daniel Hathaway follows------------
Circled by video cameras — including a giraffe-like “jib” that hovered ominously over the front seats on stage right — Franz Welser-Möst and The Cleveland Orchestra played the first in a split set of four all-Brahms concerts with the outstanding violin soloist Julia Fischer on Thursday evening at Severance Hall.
The first pair of performances were being recorded for eventual release on DVD and television and over the course of four days, the concerts would include two different overtures and symphonies and four iterations of the violin concerto. Thursday’s concert featured works written in the seven-year period between 1878 and 1885: the Academic Festival Overture, the Violin Concerto, and the Symphony No. 4 in e minor.
Sometimes concert programs are designed to challenge the audience or to juxtapose works in interesting and revelatory ways. Sometimes — as in a retrospective art exhibition — programs are curated for the sheer pleasure of enjoying a body of work brought together in one place. The all-Brahms lineup allowed last weekend’s audiences to experience several shades of Johannes Brahms’s musical personality in superb performances by a conductor and ensemble who know instinctively how to bring out the essence of Brahms without distortion or caricature.
Distortion? Caricature? In the wrong hands, Brahms can sound turgid, heavy and even grumpy. In Thursday’s lean and expressive readings, the composer’s novel variations on classical forms, textures and techniques came clearly to the fore, and revealed his infrequent but delightful sense of humor. — a latent trait Brahms shared with Johann Sebastian Bach.
When Bach, who had never attended university, was invited to join an academic society in Leipzig in 1747, he presented its erudite members with a puzzle canon that needed to be solved. When Brahms — also innocent of an academic background — was offered an honorary university degree, he responded with an overture seeded with student drinking songs. Welser-Möst and the orchestra gave an unhurried, understated reading of the Academic Festival Overture that revealed its good-hearted humor and downplayed the raucousness of its borrowed themes. At one point, while Gaudeamus igitur was holding forth in the brass, Welser-Möst was most interested in highlighting a flurry of violin passages.
One of the drawbacks of hearing the first concert in a series is experiencing a performance that isn’t quite settled yet but that will probably find its groove as the run progresses. The superb violinist Julia Fischer seemed to be trying out some new ideas in the concerto on Thursday aimed at making a familiar work new and fresh through an unusual suppleness of approach to dynamics, tempo and transitions. Even if the whole work didn’t quite gel, her tone was continuously alluring, uniform from top to bottom of her range, and the cough-prone audience sat in complete silence during her commanding first-movement cadenza. Alas, and in front of the cameras, a misplaced cue early on led a handful of upper strings to venture a premature entrance.
Frank Rosenwein’s splendid second-movement oboe solo was beautifully supported by his wind colleagues, who achieved a wonderful blend. The main theme of the finale can sound craggy and disjunct, but Julia Fischer turned it into a longer line which infused the whole movement with purpose and direction.
In many ways, the fourth symphony was the star of the program and Welser-Möst and the Orchestra played it with a fine sense of structure and musical sculpture. The Harmonie or wind section was superb throughout, tuning chords masterfully and adding a whole palette of color to the excellent strings. Leave it to Brahms to end his final symphony with such an antique form as the passacaglia — based on the bass line of a cantata attributed to Bach— refashioned to his own purposes and featuring some arrestingly modern effects. Principal flutist Joshua Smith crowned that movement with a breathtaking solo variation.
http://clevelandclassical.wordpress.com/2014/01/14/review-cleveland-orchestra-all-brahms-concert-with-julia-fischer-and-franz-welser-most-january-9/
I just heard Most/Cleveland perform R. Strauss "Don Juan", broadcast from Miami.... It was an excellent performance..... Didn't sound much different from Szell's studio performance (the best "Don Juan" to make recording), save for the "snap" and "explosiveness".....
I'll be blunt here: My main complaint about the recent Cleveland Orchestra is that the wind and brass sections tend to "ease in" to the notes instead of attack them. (The strings also do this, but it's most-noticeable in the winds and brass.) It's as if they're trying too hard to avoid playing wrong notes. I heard it in the "Don Juan", but it wasn't a real problem with this particular work. (Unlike the Szell and Maazel studio performances, there were no wrong notes in this live performance.) The problem is such playing really kills the melodic and background "lines". And the result is a bunch of notes played instead of communicated and interwoven melodies and harmonies. Everything just turns to "mush"..... Such playing also kills the "dynamic drive" called for in the music. Kind of makes the presentation seem "docile" or "boring" compared to the best out there.
Yes, the "easing in" to attacks is noticeable. This started with Dohnanyi. It's not to avoid playing wrong notes. It's an intentional change to the overall sound of the orchestra. I've seen FWM ask for this in public dress rehearsals. You get more or less of that depending on who's "driving." For example, there was less of that with Boulez.
I don't hear a lot of wrong notes at Severance Hall (except from a really bad last-minute violin soloist substitution last year). The last rehearsal I went to was the ONLY one for Britten's Spring Symphony, a piece the orchestra never played before. It had to be the only rehearsal because weather kept the instruments from returning after an out of town gig. I know this piece very well, and there were no wrong notes in the rehearsal, and none in the concert. The rehearsal focused on expression and balance.
"Yes, the 'easing in' to attacks is noticeable. This started with Dohnanyi."Quite possible.... I think the Orchestra had its biggest virtuosic decline during Dohnanyi's tenure.
But this wasn't immediate. It was gradual. I don't know how much of it was actually Dohnanyi, and how much of it was a dropoff in talent. There was a huge changeover in personnel during that time. But I don't like what I've been seeing/hearing from the individual players. (I still would like to know what actually happened to violinist Stephen Majeske. The son of late concertmaster Daniel Majeske. This guy was a fine player, and he just disappeared.... )
"It's not to avoid playing wrong notes. It's an intentional change to the overall sound of the orchestra."
I cannot speak for others, but if this was an intended change, I hate it. Absolutely hate it. It basically took the signature strength of the Cleveland Orchestra prior to 1985, and transformed it into a weakness. I don't see anything endearing in the changed style, aside from guaranteeing "safe" performances.
I've noticed this effect to a lesser degree with other major orchestras, including the Berlin Philharmonic. It's a trend that really makes me want to say, "What are the heads of these institutions thinking?" .....
For how much some here loathe Sir George Solti, he would never stand for playing like this. (I don't think Toscanini, Szell, Reiner, Karajan, or even Charles Dutoit would have stood for it as well.) I'd rather see performances that are too daring than boringly safe. Especially if the musicians have the capability to deliver the fireworks.
This happens to be why Vladimir Horowitz was my all-time favorite classical musician.... If he decided to water down his playing, I would have hated that too.... For the exact same reason.
I recently linked a performance of Janine Jansen performing the Bruch Violin Concerto with the NHK Symphony. This is how the Cleveland Orchestra used to play. (Skip to 6:00 in the clip.) And I long for its return.
Edits: 09/14/14
I blame the conservative performances on editing of recordings prior to release. Audiences and even conservatory students hear note-perfect performances and come to believe that's more important than transferring an artistic message. Some of these "musicians" are merely robots.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Then on the pop side, there's "Auto-Tune"..... Young singers wonder why they can't sing like that, realize it requires an "enhancement", then are enticed to use the enhancement..... And people then turn around wondering why we don't have great singers anymore.
I call 'em as I hear 'em.... Don't mind the disagreement or criticism of my opinions, but I'll stand by them. [-;
I'll get the Blu-Ray recording.....
I have Szell's Brahms Four.... He was definitive with the Brahms Three.... The Four is excellent too, but marred by a hard-sounding recording.
It seems J-Fi has been lying low (recording wise) for the last couple of years. (I'm not buying an all-Sarasate release, even if it is J-Fi playing!) It will be interesting to compare this newer performance of the Brahms on blu-ray to her Pentatone SACD recording.
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