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In Reply to: RE: Brahms One, Cleveland Orchestra/Franz Welser Most .... [yt] posted by Todd Krieger on September 10, 2014 at 23:38:11
I watched the Prom broadcast. Almost no life in it. When he was in London Franz was known as "Frankly Worse than Most" and it's tempting to believe this. The "nice" aspect was some kind of Viennese gemutlichkeit but it wasn't done with swagger and in itself it doesn't rescue a slack performance of a symphony which should have much more drama and snap.Why does the orchestra keep throwing contracts at this guy year after year? What do they know that we don't?
I'm not nuts about Rattle in Berlin either. Two top ten orchestras with conductors that seem to be stuck to them like glue. Aren't there more dynamic and creative conductors about, or is the world standard of conducting generally in decline?
Edits: 09/11/14Follow Ups:
“I watched the Prom broadcast. Almost no life in it. When he was in London Franz was known as ‘Frankly Worse than Most’ and it's tempting to believe this. The ‘nice’ aspect was some kind of Viennese gemutlichkeit but it wasn't done with swagger and in itself it doesn't rescue a slack performance of a symphony which should have much more drama and snap.”
Some conductors feared being criticized for putting too much of his stamp on the music... Most might take the prize.... But he ends up putting his own bland stamp on just about everything.
“Why does the orchestra keep throwing contracts at this guy year after year? What do they know that we don't?”
I get the impression he’s easy on the players.... They like that.... And often get decent reviews in spite of the blandness. The "Cleveland Orchestra" brand might be part of it. But if it hangs around too long, people will start realizing this is not the great institution it once was.
I noticed something else a little curious about the Cleveland Orchestra of recent time. The form and posture of a lot of recent musicians I believe would make John Marks cringe... I mean, some of the swaying amongst the players makes me wonder if they were watching too many Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra videos.... It became disconcerting to watch at times.
“I'm not nuts about Rattle in Berlin either.”
He’s like Most, except not as bad.... Once in a while, he'll put out a performance for the ages.... His Beethoven First Concerto w Lars Vogt roughly 7 years ago was amongst the best I've heard for this work.
“Two top ten orchestras with conductors that seem to be stuck to them like glue. Aren't there more dynamic and creative conductors about, or is the world standard of conducting generally in decline?”
That's the decline of civilization.... People no longer want to be the best and take constructive criticism to toughen them in order to get there.... Everything now is treating performers like pansies.... And as a result, they perform like pansies.
Hi Andy - I was about to mention the same nickname, it is widely known throughout the world. FYI, although some are, it is not normal for music directors to be on one year contracts, especially for the very biggest orchestras, so it is highly unlikely that he has been receiving one year deals.
I am not particularly fond of his style ( or lack of ) either but he might be ok live.
I used to think Haitink was a bore till I have heard him live in his later years. 9 one with CSO, another with BSO )
Muti at CSO isn't great either but I prefer him over Solti or worse Baremboim. Muti is particularly popular with patrons probably due to his good looks and charm.
Are you going to the LvB 9 next week? I'll be there on the 21st.
Never heard the 9th live so hopefully it's good.
Maybe you could post something before Sunday so I will know what to expect.
"Muti at CSO isn't great either but I prefer him over Solti or worse Baremboim. Muti is particularly popular with patrons probably due to his good looks and charm."
He's also popular because he's one of only few conductors who conducts like the old-school greats.... In fact, the players in Philadelphia couldn't stand him because of that. Was driven out of town. In spite of him shaping the Philly Orchestra into what I believe has been the best American orchestra since his presence there.
I think Muti's in the process of doing the same thing in Chicago. But unlike Philly, I think the Chicagoans will embrace the old-school treatment. (He would have been embraced in Cleveland too.)
Link is Muti's Philly performance of the Brahms One. The difference in melodic line and drama relative to Most's performance is striking.
I've had Muti's Schumann cycle for ages and didn't rate it that much. I replaced it with Barenboim, Kubelik, Dohnanyi and Leinsdorf and damn it - in the end after prolonged listening I came right back to Muti. Less drama, better phrasing overall. The performances last because they're well thought out musically.
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