|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
142.255.91.115
In Reply to: RE: The classical music continuing struggle and the 800-pound gorilla in the room: posted by tinear on April 17, 2014 at 07:22:54
Some thoughtful comments about a very important subject. The comments about the state of music education in Japan and California inadvertently get close to the answer; and, it is impossible to keep politics out of this discussion if the real problem is to be looked at. Yes, it is true that things like network and social media play a major role and that the absence of visual stimuli makes it harder for young audiences accustomed to it to find satisfaction in classical music. But, what is at the core of this need for that kind of stimulation? And what is it about Japan and California that, while being representative of opposite trends in what is being discussed, that gives a clue to the answer?In Japan you have a culture that still reveres tradition and instills in young people respect for "quaint" notions like appreciation of subtlety and nuance and excellence in craft; and, yes, family and spiritual values. California is probably the best example that we have in our USA of everything that is the inevitable result of the trend away from these values. Not surprising that in Ca we have less and less attention being paid to music in the schools while in other states (mid-west) the trend is not so dramatic. Of course, early childhood education in the arts is extremely valuable, but even more so is wether children are raised in a family environment that promotes, and even demands, exposure to and involvement in music; as opposed to an environment in which parents are, more and more, willing to let the schools determine what the child is exposed to without countering in an intelligent way and the schools are, more and more, taking over the role of the parent. There was a time (pre-hi-fi) when every family had, at least, one member who could play an instrument credibly, and family gatherings for singing and music making were regular events. Our culture has moved so far away for those sensibilities that what we are discussing is not the least bit surprising.
Edits: 04/18/14 04/18/14 04/18/14 04/18/14Follow Ups:
I think comparing a culture/population that's pretty homogenous with one as diverse as ours may not provide much help. There's certainly a vast difference in that regard between California and Japan.
I'm not so sure the youth of Japan has a greater appreciation for "classical" music than young people in the U.S. anyway, regardless of their educational system and culture. As you can read in what I linked, things aren't so peachy for orchestras in Japan. I doubt their own old indigenous music attracts many Japanese youth either.
Its 2014, the age of rock/pop/world, show over substance, video, downloads and earphones, and Twitter. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any country in the world where its youth attend many classical concerts or have much appreciation for Western Art music.
Really nothing that strange about it, and as you said, no surprise. Musical preferences change with the times, along with everything else. Plenty of families here and in other countries do have appreciation for music, just not "classical" music (or jazz, for that matter). In Mozart's day I seriously doubt concerts of Gregorian chants or Dunstable were magnets for Viennese youth.
Is Japan really that far from the US in terms of arts education? How do you figure "opposites"?
Dave
Please reread my post. I think you missed the point that I was trying to make; and, that is, that the culture emphasizes values that are more likely to promote appreciation for fine arts than the values that, unfortunately, are emphasized in the USA. Education in the schools (or lack thereof) is not the only factor that comes into play. The education (appreciation/respect for art, if not active participation) received at home is also key and probably even more important; and, that, is sorely lacking in many homes in the USA. Even so:
http://www.education-in-japan.info/sub1.html
This comment (from the same article) is particularly interesting
****The National School Curriculum
The elementary school curriculum covers Japanese, social studies, mathematics, science, music, arts and handicrafts, homemaking and physical education. At this stage, much time and emphasis is given to music, fine arts and physical education. (See sample curriculum here)
Once-a-week moral education classes were re-introduced into the curriculum in 1959, but these classes together with the earlier emphasis on non-academic subjects are part of its "whole person" education which is seen as the main task of the elementary school system. Moral education is also seen as more effectively carried on through the school routine and daily interactions that go on during the class cleaning and school lunch activities. ****
I understood your point, I just disagree with it. The education system in the US puts far more emphasis on creativity and expression than in Japan, and similarly I also disagree with your comments about relative cultures for the same reason. Japan has a great culture, to be sure, but if anything they are less likely to produce musicians. Of course there are many great Japanese artists/musicians but speaking generally and comparitavely I stand by that statement.
A better point of comparison would be European countries, for example Denmark where study of Classical scores is part of basic education for all. Music education and general awareness certainly lacks in the US relative to there.
Dave
David and Rick, first of all, let's remember that the subject is classical music; not jazz or any other genre. The comparison between California and Japan was made only because those were two places cited by other posters and I think they are relevant to my larger point. Additionally, the issue is attendance at classical concerts; not which country produces more musicians. I don't know the answer to that question, but I stand by my comments that a culture which emphasizes the values that I mentioned will be more likely to produce young people that appreciate classical music. Lastly, I have visited Japan seven times with various American orchestras as a touring classical musician (most recently, two months ago) and I can vouch for the fact that in Japan the percentage of young people (say, under 40) in the audiences is much larger than in audiences in the USA. While it may be true (or not) that young audiences in Japan are also declining (and I said nothing to the contrary) I think that the aforementioned fact (or, at least, my observation) speaks for itself.
Edits: 04/19/14
Some more interesting reading on the subject:
http://bomaestro.blogspot.com/2010/08/music-education-japanese-style.html
I checked out some youtube stuff by the Japanese school bands -- WOW!
When I went back to school to get a Masters at Manhattan School of Music in '98 the place was loaded with damn good Japanese and Korean players.
I certainly agree that the results of good teachers, societal commitment to music ed. and adequate money allocated for it can be amazing. Of course as an American musician I lament the lack of concern for that in the U.S.
But despite the budget cuts and seeming lack of concern for exposing American kids to good music training in public schools AFAIK there's no lack of excellent young American classical musicians - I'm open to being corrected if your experience contradicts that. I do know for a fact that the talent and ability level of young American jazz players - as well as the number of 'em - is waaaaay past where my generation was at. Its incredible how many fine young players come to NYC every year. Where the hell they're gonna get gigs I don't know, 'cause the numbers of *players* doesn't indicate a great degree of societal interest.
What you linked, and the youtubes of Japanese school bands I watched are about students who *play musical instruments*. The argument that quality music ed begets greater society-wide interest in classical music needs some stats to prove the case.
Do Japanese people attend more classical concerts per capita than Americans, buy more classical recordings, read more about Western Art music, spend a greater % of their money on classical music than Americans and/or Europeans?
I don't know the answers to those questions. Do you?
Rick, thank you for the thoughtful comment. I don't disagree with anything that you wrote. The amount of incredible talent coming out of American music schools is truly amazing; and, not just jazz players but classical as well. Wether this, as you point out, translates into a healthier long term audience base is a different matter. Logic would tell me that it certainly helps. How could it not? Even so, my contention is that it is not necessarily that which most promotes the long term health of audiences; but, instead, the values taught which instill respect and appreciation for an art form that demands attention and appreciation for the absence of bombast (usually). It is my contention that a culture such as Japan's promotes this kind of mindset more so than America's. Combine that with the kind of support for the art that exists in the schools (10 years mandatory music ed !!!) and its not surprising to see the results that this article mentions:http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2012/02/can_asians_save_classical_music_.1.html
More on the subject:
http://www.fanfaire.com/japan/japanmusicmain.html
Now for stats:
http://www.princeton.edu/~artspol/quickfacts/audiences/classical02.html
Interestingly, (since we would assume that it is music ed in the early education years that has the greatest influence) these stats seem to contradict that idea. The stats suggest that it is wether the individual has received advanced (post HS) education that promotes a long term interest in classical music. Importantly, these stats apply to the USA only. Perhaps a stretch, but I would extrapolate from this that, since there has been a decline in mandatory music ed in American schools, while in Japan it has been ramped up, and since it is in the post HS years that any individual has the maturity to pursue interests that are not supported by popular culture, that this gives credence to my contention that a culture that emphasizes a certain set of values is far more likely to build a long term base for classical music audiences.
What I feel becomes clear is that Japan seems to have a winning combination of support for music ed combined (perhaps arguably) with a cultural mindset that is promoting long term support for classical music.
Edits: 04/20/14 04/20/14
What you say does seem logical and sensible. Don't have time now to read what you linked, but I definitely will read them later.
Since I've seen/heard so many excellent young Japanese classical musicians here I disagree with David about their society not producing as many musicians as ours per capita, at least classical players in the last few decades. But I do agree with him about *creative* musicians.
Despite the existence of some examples of some amazingly creative Japanese musicians like the composer Takemitsu - whose music knocks me out BTW - I think American society has produced many more creative musicians who developed their own unique musical voices as both instrumentalists and composers. Of course I'm much more knowledgeable regarding this in jazz than I am regarding classical, though I believe its true related to Western Art music as well. As I think you mentioned in different words, we prize individuality more than Japanese society does.
I envy your trips to Japan! Still hope to get there and some other Asian countries some day.
Anyway, as I said, I'll check out what you linked later. Meantime, Happy Easter, Passover, or if neither applies, have a nice weekend.
During a recent visit with my piano tech of 20 years, who now is also a district rep for Young Chang, he related a situation in Salt Lake City. Seems a wealthy classical music lover offered to donate six piano labs, with six pianos in each one, to the local school system, for use in a school-time music education program.
His offer was refused because it would interfere with the kids' soccer practice. Doh...
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: