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In Reply to: RE: Classical music listening issue - high strings posted by jult52 on June 28, 2012 at 10:22:01
Thoughtful suggestions. I will be analytic and try to confirm or disconfirm the various ideas presented, from tinnitus to excessive digital processing to recording technique.
Follow Ups:
I don't really know where to begin other than by saying that it seems you have a system guaranteed to create the kinds of problems that you are describing.
Let me start by saying that live strings, no matter where in the audience that I sit (for that matter even sitting on stage) never sound harsh to me...that is live string sounds are never overlaid with the kind of digital distortions that you are describing.
Class D amplification sounds extremely wrong to my ears and seems to distort that sound that it reproduces. I don't know why, but Class D amplification alone can create the kind of problems you are describing. Compare the sound of Class D to Class A amplification. I think going to Class A will make a world of difference.
Furthermore, lets not overlook the digital source. These add digital distortions that overlay the sound. I find SACD to be the least distorted and closest to analog of the digital sources. When done right, it can fool me quite easily into thinking that I am hearing live music. I use SACD for my most critical listening, especially my most critical listening to classical music.
Moreover, when I have auditioned Magnepan speakers I found that they had a narrow band peak or break-up that added shriek and glassiness around 1-2 kHz, the problem area that you are describing with regard to orchestral strings.
What you have is a recipe for disaster...Class D amplification, a lower resolution digital source and speakers that act up at problematic frequencies.
First thing I would do is to try Class A amplification, then add an SACD source. I think these two steps alone might cure the problem.
The final step would be to address the speakers. Truth be told, I have not found many that do not have the same kinds of problems.
The Dynaudio line might be one to investigate as their abiding characteristic seems to be an exacting neutrality that gets out of the way of orchestral string sounds.
Thanks for the thoughtful post. I will point out that the treble in my system is actually one of the best things about it as long as violin sections aren't involved. Last night, I listened to one of the offending recordings - an EMI disc with the London Philharmonic - on my second system which, while not as resolving as my main rig, is a) class A amped, b) box speakers (B&W); c) CD source but little processing. And the sound had the same level of irritation as on my Magnepan rig, except less detailed.
I'm taking your comment about Class A vs D seriously, but an initial comparison leads me to be skeptical on that point.
B&W = metal tweeter + aramid fibers (kevlar) that stiffen when exposed to ultraviolet light (sunlight) resulting in a rasping, papery, gritty sound at the top of the drivers range. Same kinds of problems as the Magnepans.I no longer use speakers with metal dome tweeters because the (metal) tweeters have a tendency to ring and shriek in the lower part of their range resulting in steely sounding high strings.
Ideally the driver should not overlay the sound of the recording with spurious sounds (resonances) of its own.
If you tap or scrape a driver, does it make sound? If it does, then those resonances will overlay the sound being reproduced.
For that reason, I like drivers that self-damp, that resist ringing...such as fabric dome tweeters and paper or plastic coned woofers (even some the newer space age foam sandwich materials like rohacell).
Electrostatic drive units also seem to be good at self-damping.
Going to class A amplification usually (but not always) means removing the kind of gritty and edgy sounding distortions that Class D, Class B and (to a much lesser extent) Class A/B type amplifiers produce.
Morevoer, gritty and edgy sounding (digital) distortions are a more or less permanent fixture of the CD standard of digital encoding. The better (CD) players can supress these but to my ears only higher resolution formats are more or less free from these issues (SACD being the most natural sounding to me).
In my system(s) I use speakers with fabric dome tweeters (scanspeak, dynaudio), and plastic coned woofers (dynaudio, rogers). The speakers do not sound edgy or harsh and do not shriek or ring. My main amplifier is Class-A. It sounds silky, refined and detailed and free of the hard, edgy distortions of many of the amplifiers that I have used in the past. My source is usually SACD but the Marantz SACD/CD player does a very good job with CD too. I am quite pleased.
Edits: 07/02/12
the B&W speakers I was listening to have a polyester tweeter, not metal.
Also, you're now pointing out that your Marantz does pretty well on CDs.
I'm sure your system sounds wonderful but your explanation of my problems (class D, Magnepan, CD) is not fitting the fact pattern.
You are right. I'm not there. Don't know anything about your issues other than your description. Please ignore anything I said on the matter.
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