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In Reply to: RE: Stereophile "Fantasy Symphony Season" results are now posted! posted by John Marks on May 07, 2012 at 08:14:27
Is this not just a contest to see who agrees with you on orchestral music? It certainly is nothing like what actual music directors do in real life when putting together an actual concert season.
Follow Ups:
No, it is not just a contest to see who agrees with me, and if you read the results you would see that.
Yes, I was the principal "decider," and yes, there was a selection bias, but I was careful to not let my personal druthers dictate results. Case in point: while I have to acknowledge Berlioz' importance as a matter of music history, with a few exceptions his music strikes me as bombastic and unrewarding. But I did not let the fact that a season included Symphonie Fantastique cause me to throw out a season on that basis alone.
Mutatis mutandis, when I got a definite suspicion that I was being buttered up by the inclusion of pieces I had praised in writing in the past, I looked extra-hard and in cases of doubt, rejected.
I don't know how much experience you have had in musical performance organizations. I am certainly not on the Repertoire Committee of the Boston Symphony, but, I have been on the fringes of several arts groups, and I organized and presented the chamber-music performing arts series at Thomas More College for many years, and I have presented recitals at The First Baptist Church in America. I number among my friends concert soloists and orchestral musicians and music educators and board members and artist managers.
First thing, while there are still some ensembles where a music director's word is the beginning and end of things, most ensembles and series presenters have a committee approach. In my experience, the three things that seem to influence programming for all but the largest and best-run orchestras are:
Inertia/course of least resistance. If the conductor of the Mount Despair, Idaho Philharmonic is also the conductor of the Disaster Gulch, Nevada Symphony, it is likely that programs and soloists will be similar. Mid- and lower-tier orchestras often do not want to make huge efforts to learn a new piece they might play only twice in their lives, and orchestra boards don't want to pay for extra rehearsal time.
Squeaky wheel-ism. Similarly, certain board members might have pet peeves and likes, so this year we make Vinnie happy by not having any Bartok or Shostakovich, and we also make Mary happy by programming the Verdi Requiem. I know of a chorus that programmed the Verdi Requiem twice within 4 years because a major donor wanted to hear it again, right now, and was willing to give $10,000 to make that happen, but would not give that much money otherwise.
Faulty intelligence. People express opinions, but take action based on attitudes. If an organization's management does not understand that, they will continue to make decisions based on faulty intelligence. "Gee, everyone who responded to the survey in the program book said they wanted more Tchaikovsky, but we programmed more Tchaikovsky, and attendance went down!"
* * *
The fact of the matter is that far from the competition's being the coronation of a flock of Mini-Mes, I tended to favor seasons that were heavy on pieces I had never heard before or even heard of before (e.gg., Adams' "The Wound Dresser" and Joly Braga Santos' Symphony 4).
But if you don't read the results, you won't see that.
JM
> > No, it is not just a contest to see who agrees with me, and if you read the results you would see that.> >
I glanced at them and I confess I don't know your taste in music well enough to see that it is or is not just a contest to see who agrees with your taste in music.
> > Yes, I was the principal "decider," and yes, there was a selection bias, but I was careful to not let my personal druthers dictate results.> >
And how did you manage to pull that off?
> > Case in point: while I have to acknowledge Berlioz' importance as a matter of music history, with a few exceptions his music strikes me as bombastic and unrewarding. But I did not let the fact that a season included Symphonie Fantastique cause me to throw out a season on that basis alone.> >
That hardly proves your point. Please tell me I don't have to explain why.
> > Mutatis mutandis, when I got a definite suspicion that I was being buttered up by the inclusion of pieces I had praised in writing in the past, I looked extra-hard and in cases of doubt, rejected.> >
Not sure what to make of that really. I mean ultimately it is an exercise in fantasy classical music as opposed to fantasy baseball. and instead of the results being based on players performance they are based on your personal opinions. It does look like a kind of bizarre exercise in vanity and a contest of other peoples' taste. Apparently the contest was to put together a list of classical pieces that would appeal to you but not so much as toappear to be an obvious attempt at appealing to your tatse. Same thing as a contest to see who agrees with you only with a twist. It's all fine and well. Just kinda an odd exercise really.
I am kind of wondering what was the point?
> > I don't know how much experience you have had in musical performance organizations. I am certainly not on the Repertoire Committee of the Boston Symphony, but, I have been on the fringes of several arts groups, and I organized and presented the chamber-music performing arts series at Thomas More College for many years, and I have presented recitals at The First Baptist Church in America. I number among my friends concert soloists and orchestral musicians and music educators and board members and artist managers.> >
That's nice.
> > First thing, while there are still some ensembles where a music director's word is the beginning and end of things, most ensembles and series presenters have a committee approach. In my experience, the three things that seem to influence programming for all but the largest and best-run orchestras are:
Inertia/course of least resistance. If the conductor of the Mount Despair, Idaho Philharmonic is also the conductor of the Disaster Gulch, Nevada Symphony, it is likely that programs and soloists will be similar. Mid- and lower-tier orchestras often do not want to make huge efforts to learn a new piece they might play only twice in their lives, and orchestra boards don't want to pay for extra rehearsal time.
Squeaky wheel-ism. Similarly, certain board members might have pet peeves and likes, so this year we make Vinnie happy by not having any Bartok or Shostakovich, and we also make Mary happy by programming the Verdi Requiem. I know of a chorus that programmed the Verdi Requiem twice within 4 years because a major donor wanted to hear it again, right now, and was willing to give $10,000 to make that happen, but would not give that much money otherwise.> >
IMO an article on these issues would be far more interesting than this contest. Maybe you could use this exercise and then compare it to a variety of real world classical seasons and then maybe show how these issues you talk about here affect the process of building a real world season of classical music.
> > Faulty intelligence. People express opinions, but take action based on attitudes. If an organization's management does not understand that, they will continue to make decisions based on faulty intelligence. "Gee, everyone who responded to the survey in the program book said they wanted more Tchaikovsky, but we programmed more Tchaikovsky, and attendance went down!"> >
Now that would be a fun one to see you elaborate on with real world examples.
> > The fact of the matter is that far from the competition's being the coronation of a flock of Mini-Mes, I tended to favor seasons that were heavy on pieces I had never heard before or even heard of before (e.gg., Adams' "The Wound Dresser" and Joly Braga Santos' Symphony 4).
But if you don't read the results, you won't see that.> >
I did read the results but again I just don't know your taste nearly well enough to extrapolate such things. I guess the exercise in constructing a fantasy season is...I dunno... kinda fun in a way. But it also seemed kinda self indulgent with one judge. And kind of a contest of taste. Ultimately I look at it and think OK that's several lists of music that different people like that you deemed worthy. But ultimately they are just lists like Rolling Stone's top 500 albums or top 100 guitarists.
Maybe you will consider tying this into the real world of building a season as I suggested earlier. IMO that might actually be really interesting.
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