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In Reply to: RE: definitely tweeters in posted by ahendler on February 17, 2017 at 15:01:14
These Limage/HK evangelists. Darn it, Alan, am I getting old! LOL Should have seen you coming a mile away.[BTW , I was about to drop a line or two for Josh's benefit elsewhere here. It's related to PC-audio. You may want to pitch in if you see fit.]
Edits: 02/17/17Follow Ups:
Limage setups are phenomenal when they work. You get a better fuller tonal balance and the wide soundstage of the tweeter out position and the image precision depth and detail of the tweeter in setup when in the near equilateral nearfield positioning scheme traditional for maggies.
GL, The maggies are generally crossed over to provide better time alignment in the tweeters out position, which is why they sound fuller and give bigger soundstages even with the distance between tweeters held constant.
I don't know if your room would support. the Limage setup since IIRC it is pretty much square. But it is worth a try.
I'd like to try this setup but that would place one speaker directly in the walk path and would require the speaker cables to run underneath a carpet.In addition my cables aren't lenghty enough to perform this free tweak (I estimate I'd need at least 15' per speaker x4 total in a biamp; However-it just so happens I'm waiting on a 100ft spool of pure copper speaker wire to arrive for a pre-planned DIY cable project. But even at 100' that may not be enough (my plan is to use triple lengths of 18ga in a helical pattern in 6' lengths biampe'd). Fortunately copper wire is fairly inexpensive -about $30 total.
Edits: 02/19/17
Copper is not copper, but I may be barking up the wrong tree.
Listeners seem willing to go to any lengths for improved sound.
:-) (Tweeters out is my preference.)
LoL ain't it the truth!
I experimented a LOT when I got my panels, at least the 1.6s.
Tweeters in or out?
And listen to fron or back?
All 4 logical cases were tried and I ended up tweeter 'in' and listening to the mylar side.
Some setups were immediately junked out. Others lasted an hour while several lasted a couple weeks or more.
The better the setup, the more time it took to properly evaluate.
Too much is never enough
For most every variable in set up there are trade offs.What are the trade offs of having the tweeters in vs out?
There are two main issues, the simple one is that you have the crossover designed for the tweeters out position, where the driver timing (offsets) integrates with the crossover's delays. The second is interaction with the sidewalls.
The "best" balance of reflected to direct sound is usually with the tweeter at about 3ft from the sidewalls. Larger distances emphasize the center image and reduce the dominance of ambient cues. If your room is narrow, then the tweeters out position will end up pushing the speakers too close together and the soundstage would narrow somewhat. In a wide room you would be able to "isolate" the speakers from the sidewall interactions and have tweeters out at either the normal 3ft distance to the sidewalls or pulled further into the room to give you the listening distance to interspeaker spacing ratio that provides you with the best aspect angle for your listening preference. For example, I like to have a close up perspective of a front hall seat. That requires a wide aspect angle that most people don't like. Most recordings are made with the assumption of a 60 degree angle so you are trying to get a wider soundstage than the recording was intended to provide. I was pleasantly surprised that it actually works quite well in presenting a close up orchestra without the soundstage distorting its shape up to nearly 160 degrees, My preferred angle is normally closer to 120 deg...
In a wide room with the tweeters in you hardly have any sidewall participation and you get minimonitor like lateral and depth dimensions with terrific precision, but lack a bit of an ambient sense of the hall.
There are two main issues, the simple one is that you have the crossover designed for the tweeters out position, where the driver timing (offsets) integrates with the crossover's delays.
Well SAid. I've been trying to simplify this for a while now without success.
Next step would be FIR crossover at the line level and add some delay to the nearest driver. Maybe 1ms or 2ms tops would do.
Too much is never enough
It is important to know that Limage does not always work. You simply have to try it
Alan
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