Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

"which can peak for very short periods at 109dB or more"

206.255.198.169

In Reply to: RE: 3.7i Parasound A-21 underpowered, need advise - posted by finbad on February 09, 2017 at 14:42:12

For a wall of rock-based mud, yes.

I've used my SPL meter at many an orchestral concert and never registered above 103 db even at momentary peaks for pieces like Pines of Rome with balcony situated brass and the Carmina Burana with a 200 voice chorus with dynamic range that raised the hairs on my arms.

BTW, I've heard 3.7s played quite loudly (and exceptionally cleanly) at Sea Cliff using 300 watt/channel McIntosh tube monoblocks playing 45 RPM vinyl pressings from Classic Records. Michael brought them and was there at the time.

Follow Ups:

RE: "which can peak for very short periods at 109dB or more" - finbad 16:03:58 02/09/17 (35)
I was told I may have an overdamped listening room, Mr. Diller said to my salesperson within their discussions , and there maybe some truth to that probability.

Of course, I should like to "know" by way of measurements here of the "truth".
- Tell us about your room - E-Stat 17:29:18 02/09/17 (34)
  or, ideally post a pic.
  
  I'm all about room treatments and use a mix of diffusion and bass traps in the main system. Even have some damping panels in the garage! Having said that, I have a friend in town with a clearly overly damped room. He's got carpet all over the walls and the overall sound is quite dead. You can have too much of a good thing!
  
  Got a smart phone? There are free SPL apps available. I also have a Radio Shack digital SPL meter used for speaker and trap placement.
  - RE: Tell us about your room - finbad 18:40:22 02/09/17 (33)
    Good and needed info on the app(s) and a spl meter .
    
    Bought an assortment of 6ea GIK 2x4 panels as well as 4ea tri-bass traps -
    
    12' x 23' short wall setup - 6'8'' away out, with 10'' off side walls, 15 degree toe-in, with LP equal to distance between on center of speakers and 8' from back wall. large sofa @ back wall, 3 large leather strato-loungers, one O.C. as L.P... All wall to wall w wool area rugs over top. 2ea 7' thin leafed palms for dispersion .
    
    See this inmates image gallery ;')
    
    Best regards
    - RE: Tell us about your room - Satie 22:12:48 02/10/17 (30)
      Your sofa and multiple big chairs are also bass traps. The room may indeed be overdamped, hence you play the speakers hard, clip the amp and burn it out eventually. It is also likely why you did not end up sitting near the back wall in what would otherwise have been a Limage setup. The Limage setup relies on tuning the balance of reflected and direct sound and would normally not require toe in. But if the front of the room is overdamped then you might be having too little aggregate output and so direct output needed to be aimed straight at you.
      
      The JC 1 is the amp for you. The nearfield listening you chose will highlight the fact that the Magtech is not a high bias class A/AB with less than the ultimate in detail and tone. If you want a bit of extra bite then that swings you a bit further to the Magtech.
      
      Something to try is to drag the Sofa to the side wall and the two extra chairs to the sidewall opposing the sofa and pull the listening chair to about 2 ft from the back wall. Rotate the speakers back to front forwards and bring them up to at least 8 ft from the front wall and start marching them forwards towards your seat - if you pass the 11 ft mark then you probably missed the right spot and need to move the speakers back to find the optimun. It is likely to be in the 9--10 ft range. The seating at the back wall should give you heavier bass and moving the sofa off the back wall will enrich the main harmonic resonant mode of the room, which is overdamped with traps and stuffed furniture as it is.
      - RE: Tell us about your room - finbad 10:44:11 02/11/17 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by Satie on February 10, 2017 at 22:12:48
        
        Thank You for addressing my issues and giving me concrete options , indeed I know we must address firstly, the listening space as a component too !
        
        Salvation Army will be pleased as I thin this room exposing the all important rear wall !
        
        Good ideas all, from you good yoyo's ...;')
        
        I contacted Rodger Sanders to coordinate a 30 day trial with the ETA with my refreshed or new , which my sales rep at Audio Visions South too said is an option with Mr. Diller at Magnapan .
        
        I also have in cart a pair of Wyred 4 Sound SX-1000R Monoblock Amplifiers @ less than USD $2,800 which has intrigued since the Teac 25w monos I was somewhat impressed with -
        
        fronting Klipsch 6.5 two ways @ 94 efficiency with a Bottlehead maxed out Foreplay Preamp twin AU7 RCA clear tops - very analytical with articulated exaggerated bass though rolled off Highs so as to loose ambiance cues -
        
        Though interesting enough and with very good forward midrange w/ volume -
        
        So there's that interest with the pair SX1000R too
        that I may pursue concurrently vs the Magtech vs A-21 (???)
        
        God , for the love of a bi-amped crossover hey .
        
        Good day, Sir(s)
        
        -Bill
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - Satie 11:13:15 02/11/17 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by finbad on February 11, 2017 at 10:44:11
        
        Many a planar owner found salvation at a reasonable cost with the W4S SX1000R monos. If you do happen to put them against the Magetech please do report about it. That is one of the most interesting in high power amp shootouts we are all curious about.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - finbad 11:54:58 02/11/17 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by Satie on February 11, 2017 at 11:13:15
        
        Will do, Satie !
        
        With great hopes , soon :)
        
        -Bill
      - RE: Tell us about your room - russ69 04:17:21 02/11/17 (25)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by Satie on February 10, 2017 at 22:12:48
        
        "The JC 1 is the amp for you."
        
        FYI. My brother smoked one of his JC1s with the 3.6s. It took Parasound a while to fix it as they were waiting for parts. The repair technician said they have seen this problem before and recommended that if you drive hard don't use the class A mode. I guess they run too hot in that mode.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - finbad 15:27:39 02/14/17 (23)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by russ69 on February 11, 2017 at 04:17:21
        
        Excellent veteran advise which I now know to avoid should I go the tempting JC 1 mono route ...
        
        Low bias setting on JC 1's with our Magnepans !
        
        -Regards
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 13:03:00 02/16/17 (22)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by finbad on February 14, 2017 at 15:27:39
        
        That's a shame, though. I can hear when the A-21's leave Class A above 10 watts. Sadly, with Maggies, that's quite often.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 15:20:24 02/16/17 (21)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 16, 2017 at 13:03:00
        
        Josh, that's the reason I had to give my "better" Parasound to the tweeters in the bi-amp here. At factory bias, it is capable of slightly more power in class A than the Parasound driving the mid/bass Mylar real estate. Then, upping the bias gives the tweeter a fighting chance and it pays off. Keeping class A in the upper range is more important than the lower range, which you know.
        Happily, you'll get there, and much better so. I think we already had a discussion on the subject recently, and there were some good ideas for you to add to your own. OTOH, this is an alternative that we can't suggest for Bill's 3.7i's...hmm...or perhaps Neolith gets adventuresome enough to lead that way and bi-amp them. (I do believe he's tempted; perhaps we should talk to Lolita, in case she's the real boss and can speed things up :)
        BTW, class A at lower volume has to be distinguished from the appreciable drop in distortion from other effects. Largely, from the reduction in mechanical intermodulation. Another way to look at it is that, by seeking to stay in class A range, we lower volume to where synergistic benefits happen in Maggies. Which, biamping or not, makes a strong case for a more "efficient room". (ok, it's a misnomer but that's how it worked for me, LOL)
        
        Edits: 02/16/17
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 16:07:24 02/16/17 (20)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 16, 2017 at 15:20:24
        
        Yep, I'm hoping that if I use the A-21 with the Neos it will stay in Class A most of the time. Up to 103 dB, anyway. I could always try upping the bias per John Curl's instructions, maybe adding a couple of fans (for redundancy). But still haven't decided what I'll do by way of amplification as there's no rush.
        
        I know the sound of crossover notch distortion well enough to distinguish it from IM. Which, hopefully, will be lower with the Neos and perhaps a higher crossover for the ribbons. But I can't get started on that right now -- I took my computer apart to install quieter stuff (fanless power supply, quiet video card, liquid cooler, and quieter fans) so I can use it in the listening room. Also been working on the diffusers which I glued together and had to patch because they'd fallen off the wall so much and need painting now, experimenting with a reflection-free zone made (for experiments sake) out of pink styrofoam from Home Depot, and really have to get those woofers rebuilt. So my plate's pretty full, my back has been decidedly non-cooperative this week, and I'm trying to figure out why the radiator in my office is so much slower to heat up than the others . . .
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 18:12:25 02/16/17 (19)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 16, 2017 at 16:07:24
        
        Sorry to hear that your back is not helping. I may be on the same boat by tomorrow. My back is doomed; a major mess I just made yesterday will now need to be undone and fast. Friends just called to say they'll come visit on Saturday. My wife then proceeded to issue instructions on how she wants me to clean up my mess. I guess I'll soon be asking you for back pain remedies.
        
        All, because yesterday evening I began to dismember and reshuffle the audio system, and the MMG's. My wife wants a larger TV in there soon. So, those same pink panels you got, are about to help me figure out how to retain the good audio, despite the larger TV. Like I once did simulating your fireplace, these panels should tell me what to expect and how to deal with it. (BTW, I am glad you moved the audio to another room :)
        
        Your PC got a new fanless PS, huh? Had I known! For the last rebuild of my music PC, I decided to return to a fanned -- but rather silent -- one. Its electrical noise and related parameters beat every single PS out there, and all the fanless ones also. It was worth the minor compromise in ambient noise. That said, my existing background sound noise is already compromised by our ubiquitous Floridian A/C humming. Darn, we haven't even had a single decent cold front, which provide me with superb listening opportunities.
        
        OTOH, your radiation heaters are not intrusive...well, except for your teeth clattering, LOL.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 12:15:31 02/17/17 (18)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 16, 2017 at 18:12:25
        
        If only! The radiators do bang when the heat comes up, often more loudly than the music. But the real problem is the radiator that insists on living where my left hand woofer panels should be. I spoke to the plumber about moving it to another wall but it usually takes at least a year before the plumber shows up to do anything.
        
        Same sadly undersized listening room, by the way, I just reoriented things so that the fireplace is on my right instead of behind my speakers. Works much better sonically but it doesn't do wonders for the appearance of the room, unless I push the panels back beyond the fireplace, in which case the image suffers since they're only 3' from the wall. Maybe my RFZ will do something about that.
        
        Glad you're getting a new TV but sorry to hear it will be creating sonic problems! One good thing about a projector, it doesn't get in the way.
        
        Still not sure whether the computer will be too noisy but I'm about to find out. If it is, it goes back in my home office and I run long cables, the way I used to have it. It's a good arrangement but it's a PITA because of all the cables. Either that, or I put ventilation in the closet and put the computer there, but that's something else I don't have time to do as it means knocking through two walls and running a flexible duct between them.
        
        I originally equipped this computer with a supposedly quiet power supply but it turned out to have an annoying characteristic in that there's an annoying thunking in between fan off and fan on because the fan can't decided whether to turn or not so it sits there shaking instead . . .
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 17:15:45 02/17/17 (17)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 17, 2017 at 12:15:31
        
        Hmm, Josh, sorry to hear that. Most folks I know in the North Central and Northeastern states can enjoy a very low background noise level most of the year. Me, I have to roast in sauna-like heat after turning the A/C off for hours. But hey, the music's good and the beaches are close by, not that I've ever dipped a toe in these.
        I somehow missed that reorientation in your room. So much happened in that house of yours along time that I lost track, it seems. I'll try to get my bearings again.
        Yeah well, thanks. That larger TV is going to be a pain, I can almost feel it. I am optimistic, really so. The real issue is spending time on new tweaks at a time when I'd rather be listening to music. Problem is, this is also the best time to tackle this and other "opportunities". I did put it back together this evening. And minutes ago, the friends postponed the trip! So, I'll now go listen for a while. Got a new DVD of an opera that I just saw live last week (different performers) and I am curious about something. (Coffee-maker is now primed and ready for the heavy espressos I'll need. :)
        Oh, I'd love to be able to use a projector! I'll just have to envy you, for one of those can't be used here and still have the Maggies. At times, there is a friend's 130" projected image in his home theater, not that I really crave sitting in those fancy and hard, leather chairs. Me and the lady of the house cuddle up just perfectly in our cheap cushions sofa.
        You know -- now about that PC-- you may want to consider de-tuning that computer as much as you can afford to. Each person has a different set of audio goals so, this is not gospel. Years ago I found that turning off everything I could in BIOS (including CPU fan controls) and in the Windows registry is really worth it. The list of optimizations can be very long. In my case, the Audio PC is a "stick-shift WinXP". It's so devoid of frills that I can run it's single active core at 800mhz, though I often keep it higher. It is part of the reason I can listen for tens of hours in a row. Check out our PC Asylum...hmm, if you thought we were odd in this corner of the Asylum...
        
        Edits: 02/17/17
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 18:12:15 02/17/17 (16)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 17, 2017 at 17:15:45
        
        Yeah, it's true, my place has been like a soap opera. At least it's straightened out now and down to fine tuning, getting the video set up again, etc. It's actually sounding pretty great as it is even though there are some things horribly wrong with my setup, e.g., the left hand woofer panels being closer than the right ones and almost on top of the left mid-tweet panel. In fact I'm kind of puzzled that it sounds as good as it does -- it's almost frustrating because I have all the stuff to improve it -- Neo 8's, Mini DSP, new HTPC, acoustical treatment, etc. -- but it's sounding so good as it is that part of me is saying I'm nuts to even try.
        
        Don't tell anyone but you can do pretty amazingly well with a tiny, lopsided room, a used A 21, and 30 year old Tympanis!
        
        Are you sure you can't fit a projector? I forget how much space you have between your speakers but I had a 114" screen between my MMG's -- that was the largest image I could get with the throw length I had (now you can get short-throw projectors). IVA's should be no different, I'll have the mid-tweet panels about where the MMG's were. It won't work for theatrical seating because the speakers block the side view but with it just being you and your wife I don't think sight lines would be a problem as long as you used the speakers tweeters in.
        
        Old photo that shows the arrangement (and reminds me of just how badly it needed those renovations):
        
        I made the screen out of an aluminum frame and mounted it on a rail so that it slid in front of the window when I wanted to use the projector. Total cost something like $40.
        
        That's the evil radiator I'm talking about, BTW, I want to swing it around to the wall behind the left hand speaker but it's harder to move that radiator now since we had them build a plumbing chase to hide the steam pipe -- you can see it in this shot (I was experimenting with Rooze):
        
        Which makes things difficult because the joint is inside the chase -- the plumber thinks he might be able to uncouple it from the outside but it might require some demolition and it certainly isn't something I plan to take on myself. So I'm stuck doing this:
        
        Or as I have them now having the left woofer panel against the left wall in front of the radiator.
        
        Anyway, if you remember that the screen comes to the right of the window on the front wall you can see that there's plenty of room for a projected image while maintaining an equilateral triangle.
        
        Now the PC issue is something that's been running through my mind. I have been thinking of a dedicated HTPC -- underclocked processor, stripped down, etc. The reason I didn't go that way was that I need to use it for theater as well as audio, which requires more power, and I'd gotten in the habit of surfing and doing work on the projector - decadent, I know, but delightfully easy on the eyes. So I wanted to use my main machine that way. But I've been thinking in the last few days that maybe I should put an underclocked, quiet machine it he living room and the more powerful one in the office, and then if I want to work in the living room I can just use remote desktop. But that in turn means getting more stuff which means I have to do the research for it which means more time!
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 19:38:47 02/18/17 (15)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 17, 2017 at 18:12:15
        
        Well now, that's far "more better" than I remember! It also is looking more polished than before...the speakers, I mean. I don't care much for decor until the sound gets were it should, not that my wife agrees.
        
        Sadly, the projector is a non-starter here because what we have behind the system is a large sliding glass door.
        
        As to the PC, for the relatively low cost that it would be if you did this yourself, please consider building TWO computers. One, a full-fledged HTPC. The other an optimized Music-PC. I bit the bullet and did this years ago and could not be happier. If my MMG's can tell the difference in SQ, imagine what those babies of yours would say!
        
        [Now, back to cleaning. I just made an explosively messy mess by accidentally dropping a heavy Craftsman tape measure on a fine glass table. I was about to measure and cut some of the pink stuff to simulate the upcoming larger TV. Yes, I am in a bit of trouble. :( ]
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 08:40:55 02/19/17 (14)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 18, 2017 at 19:38:47
        
        LOL, yeah. The speakers are actually far from finished since they still have some delam and the original midranges. I'll get new socks once I've done experimenting, or maybe I should use velcro and just cover the front so they're easy to repair? Neos will go in when I've repaired the delam and laid in some more channels of amplification.
        
        I'm really curious about the Benchmark AHB2 -- do you know anyone who's heard it? At 100 watts/channel it's nicely sized for the Neo 8's with their 93 dB efficiency, and I'm intrigued by their use of a feedforward topology which is something I've been wondering about since it was mentioned in the early papers on TIM (Otala's?) back in the 70's. I assume without having read about it that they've relied mostly on the feedforward to linearize the devices and reduce crossover distortion and then used feedback to clean up the residual. Much more practical than running Class A, I've been looking at the idle draw of the x250 and the xa30.5 and it's pretty scary. OTOH, there's what looks like a nice x250 for sale in New York though with the way my back's been behaving lately I'm not sure I should get a 100 pound amp!
        
        What about a retractable screen mounted over your door? That's what I'd put in here if it weren't for the cost.
        
        The idea of a dedicated music PC is intriguing, but how would it work? Given that both the music PC and the HTPC would be feeding the same jizz. I'd have to switch between them and I'd also have two computers in the listening room which would add to noise. Since I'd presumably be running JRiver anyway would it really make a difference? I use JRiver to play video files. So I could have a dedicated quiet HTPC in the living room just for media, and then remote desktop to the office computer if I wanted to do something else. Assuming the new build is as quiet as I hope to make it.
        
        As to the table, all I can say is "ah feel your pain"!
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 15:38:47 02/19/17 (13)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 19, 2017 at 08:40:55
        
        Unfortunately, I have not yet heard a Benchmark AHB2 but Benchmark are not prone to disappoint. Curiously, a neighbor wanted to buy one last year but got scared by the wild price swings on the used market. By the time he told me, a Krell had made it to his home. I would have told him to consider that many folks expect too many miracles from 100 honest watts. Thus, they may be selling short. It's just my speculation, of course, but I wish he had studied this more fully first.
        I am with you on the current draw (plus the heat) of class A amps. Part-time class A works for me. There's still much heat. I am thinking that perhaps I can DIY a switch for Normal/Hi bias, like the JC1 has...probably not as easy as I want to believe.
        Yes, the retractable screen came to mind here at one point. However, the issue of room width still impedes. I can't set the MMG's close to the walls. Even if it sounded right, there is a bedroom door right next to one of them.
        About the PC's: the 2 computers here share a common input switch, in a manner of speaking. There are 4 switch inputs:
        1. Denon receiver's line output for front speakers (the receiver only handles 2 surround speakers [I use no center & no subwoofer]. The Denon provides all the digital decoding functions for inputs from Cable TV, any players's functions, AND the HTPC's on-board audio (and video when needed though it usually goes directly to the TV).
        2. The HTPC has a 2nd audio device, a USB DAC. For stereo music it is better than the motherboard's (but this mobo has a really good audio chipset).
        3. belongs to the analog stereo outputs of a BRay/SACD player.
        4. This fourth input -- nominally -- belongs to the output of the Music-PC's USB DAC.
        On the fourth input I say "nominally" but this is a long story. For now, I 'll add that the so-called switch if not only so, but also a DIY hybrid/passive preamp. However, when I turn it off, input "4" bypasses everything. In this manner, the Music-PC then depends on the volume control of its USB DAC. This DAC outputs class A. So, turning off the preamp creates a pure line, class A, to the PLLXO and then the power amps. (BTW, that same line is Y-split and also goes to the woofers' filter/pre.)
        By and large, the functions in my DIY switch/pre could be easily done with commercial units. For example, had something like the Schitt Saga been available then, for its price and quality, I would have used it. It's key contribution is in allowing the option for clean analog stereo thoughput to the amps, and/or for the stereo portion of a multi-channel signal.
        As for multi-channel and video processing, you could decide to use no receiver at all. The HTPC can replicate many of its functions, certainly the most needed. The beauty over here, is that the HTPC can be turned off while the Music-PC is being used for stereo music. (Yet, this is seldom done, given its multimedia convenience, which the Music-PC lacks. In fact, I am replying to you via the HTPC, though right now I am operating it remotely from elsewhere in the apartment. My wife decided to listen to something on the Music-PC.)
        Luckily, I was able to add stereo woofers which -- by fortune, and unexpectedly -- can handle movies just fine also. However, the goal was to make them "music-woofers" first and foremost. So, on this they do far better than "fine". Even so, I am able to keep them off at will, leaving the Maggies to do their work alone most of the time.
        
        Edits: 02/19/17
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 16:12:35 02/19/17 (12)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 19, 2017 at 15:38:47
        
        I noticed those price swings. Unfortunately, it's moot right now, as there are no used ones for sale -- they don't seem to come up very often. That 100 watt limit may have something to do with it, as they appear to be the opposite of tube watts -- when the thing runs out of steam, the harmonic distortion soars into the stratosphere. It would likely work with the 93 dB efficient Neo 8's, though, that's 113 dB at the listening seat (and actually a few dB more since it would be a 4 ohm load).
        
        I think a DIY bias switch is a good idea. Not exactly that complex. I wonder why there haven't been more variable bias designs? I'm seeing more Class H.
        
        One possibility would be an acoustically transparent screen that lowered in *front* of the MMG's when you were watching -- you could use a short throw projector if you had to. But I'm not sure if someone makes an acoustically transparent motorized screen, particularly a reasonably priced one.
        
        That sounds like quite an elaborate switching setup! I'm not going analog but rather SPDIF out to the Mini DSP. So I'd have to switch the SPDIF. And god knows what happens when I add surround, which, however, I'm very far from doing -- hard to think of something affordable that wouldn't degrade the performance of the mains. One possibility is to repurpose the Tympani mids for surrounds and then add new ribbons. But, as I said, far in the future -- I have a lot of work still to do on the two-channel system, including experimenting with split woofers.
        
        mid and perhaps tweeter amp - Satie 10:36:21 02/20/17 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 19, 2017 at 16:12:35
        
        I came across NuPrime amps, which are offshoots from NuForce and have copied the basic architecture from Devialet but took the class A bit further and went linear with the power supply. Power does not double with lower impedance. As with the NuForce designs, transient dynamic output gives you a generous 3db to give "startling" dynamics, if it is anything like the Ref 8b I have..
        
        Unfortunately, can't contribute to the HTPC and screen discussion as my music PCs are cast off laptops.
        
        As to preamps for switching cleanly and for gain, I find them necessary rather than an option. I would suggest a DIY Bruce Herran non NFB design. You can put on as many inputs as you like. These are far more costly than the lazy tubes on the Schiit models. Even the Freya.
        
        http://www.nuprimeaudio.com/index.php/products/amplifiers-an (Open in New Window)
        
        RE: mid and perhaps tweeter amp - josh358 10:44:38 02/21/17 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: mid and perhaps tweeter amp posted by Satie on February 20, 2017 at 10:36:21
        
        That's interesting. How does it sound? A very wide variety of amplifiers on that website, with varying input stages, power supplies, and bridges. But didn't see much on Hi Fi Shark.
        
        My switching options are complicated by the fact that I'll be using the Mini DSP, which has an SPDIF input. So basically I'd need an SPDIF switcher for that option. But I don't think I'll be going with more than one PC now, I just want to get back up and running -- I've been using my Chromebook as a temporary source while I work on the computer. Which I should have done last night, but ended up experimenting with speaker position instead -- moved the left bass panels back in line with the right ones and used a piece of styrofoam to plug the radiator gap, then was playing with bass panel angles to tame the second reflection off the bass panels and wall. This had the effet of opening up the soundstage on the left, which has been a chronic problem.
        
        RE: mid and perhaps tweeter amp - Satie 11:04:10 02/22/17 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: mid and perhaps tweeter amp posted by josh358 on February 21, 2017 at 10:44:38
        
        There is a ST 10 review from Steven Stone which is very favorable and suggests that it is far smoother and images better than any other class D amp and competitive with price no object designs. He did note that it clips rather harshly, which it should not be doing at the mid/tweeter load . The company is still new so there is little on the used market and the late 2015 review from TAS is pretty much it.
        
        http://www.theabsolutesound.com/buyers_guides/29/download/pd (Open in New Window)
        
        RE: mid and perhaps tweeter amp - josh358 12:54:52 02/22/17 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: mid and perhaps tweeter amp posted by Satie on February 22, 2017 at 11:04:10
        
        Thanks -- I did see a few used ones, nothing available now but for $1150 vs. $1600 new it really doesn't matter, I'd just assume get a new one if I go that way. It's certainly intriguing.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 00:03:50 02/20/17 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 19, 2017 at 16:12:35
        
        I just checked a few places and, to my surprise, Amazon has a few used for good prices. But, yeah, now I see the spread. Hmmm, check thoroughly.
        LOL, your are making me walk this projector thing all over again. At the time we put my friend's system together, I got curious about the acoustically transparent screen possibility. I then told my wife, who provided a quick reality check. Something like, "we are going to be seated too close, I'd rather you took me to the IMAX in Ft. Lauderdale and then to dinner more often." I dropped the whole subject...I hate parking at downtowns.
        
        Edits: 02/20/17
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 11:55:14 02/20/17 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 20, 2017 at 00:03:50
        
        Do you mean the $450 ones on Amazon? I saw those but decided they fall into the "too good to be true" category and were a scam. Sure enough, the next day, they were back, identical price, but three different vendor names, each one a new seller with no feedback at all. Otherwise, judging by Hi Fi Shark, used prices seem to go between $1500 or so and maybe $2200($3000 new).
        
        So how far away would you be from the screen? My room is only 13' deep, and the 114" screen size was great. I just went upstairs and measured, and I would have been sitting 10' or 11' back from it. I dug these out, I think they give a pretty good idea of what the screen size feels like from the captain's chair:
        
        I was actually fine sitting closer and sometimes I'd move the chair up, particularly with 1.85 or 2.35 wide screen material that got letterboxed. Of course if you have to sit closer you can also reduce the screen size commensurately (and the throw length will probably do that for you anyway if you have a limited range zoom lens), but too much and you lose the "life size" effect that makes the projector so much more engaging than a 55" LCD.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 22:24:07 02/20/17 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 20, 2017 at 11:55:14
        
        Well, Josh, there you have it. No sooner had I begun to touch on the subject again this evening than she stomped her foot and squashed it. Clearly, I misjudged how much she really likes the view. Of both, a "normal" living room and of the park, which can be seen across the canal. I guess the next step is to move to a larger place.
        
        I do love the cozy look in that home theater setup that you had, and plan to rebuild.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 10:50:12 02/21/17 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 20, 2017 at 22:24:07
        
        Nurtz! Actually, I can understand your wife's not wanting to lose the view, that's why I made a moveable screen rather than a fixed one -- I didn't want to lose that window. And since I don't watch TV during the day or look out the window at night, it works out pretty well. Maybe you could sell your wife on a retractable screen? Since it disappears when you aren't watching it, it's actually less intrusive than a TV, particularly if you can build the screen into something. But that's serious watching, if you just have the TV on in the background during the day I can see that you might want the view as well.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 21:52:56 02/21/17 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 21, 2017 at 10:50:12
        
        Josh, yes. The screen would have to be down all the time, since she spends many of her free hours watching. That's how I get all these subscriptions and purchases to QVC, HSN, etc. One look at my morning inbox spam would give folks the wrong impression. (Though, at my age, I probably should start using that Bondo-like stuff they sell for my face, LOL).
        
        She really likes that deep view behind the TV, even at night when all we can see are park's tall floodlights. I should have remembered that we have a similar TV in the bedroom and she still prefers the main one.
        
        Now, since she does, I am arguing that her view will be obstructed by too large a new TV, which also risks ruining my sound system. The argument is partially working...from 70" down to 65". I am hoping for like 55", for audio reasons, but preparing for the worst.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 05:40:39 02/22/17 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 21, 2017 at 21:52:56
        
        Ouch, yeah, that is a conundrum.
        
        It's also true that projectors aren't the best way to watch TV during the day when the lights are up. They're OK particularly if you use a high gain screen but still a bit washed out.
        
        So how's this for a compromise? Keep your current TV for daytime viewing, but install a retracting screen and projector as well. That way you best preserve the view and the sound and can use the projector when watching seriously, e.g., a movie in the evening.
        
        I suspect that once your wife sees what it's like to watch on a large screen she'll change her opinion, it really is a different experience from watching on a 65" screen.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - JBen 06:22:33 02/22/17 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by josh358 on February 22, 2017 at 05:40:39
        
        Josh, I'm just about to leave for work. LOL, are you selling this stuff? Tough sell because she's not dying for such a thing. We already watch some movies and sports at my friend's place every now and then; she comes along for social reasons, not the huge screen. Besides, she is perfectly happy to view some movies on her iThings. That darn iPad is so bright and clear that all she seems to want is that brightness and sharpness on a much larger screen.
        
        I've no practical options until we move elsewhere...by which time projection will be better & cheaper, I am sure. For now, I just have to protect my audio system's virtues.
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - josh358 08:31:57 02/22/17 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by JBen on February 22, 2017 at 06:22:33
        
        I don't know what it is about women -- they won't tolerate a 3" piece of equipment in the living room, but they're content to watch movies on a 4" phone!
        
        RE: Tell us about your room - Satie 09:32:27 02/11/17 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by russ69 on February 11, 2017 at 04:17:21
        
        Yes, you need to run them with the low bias setting. You can play them at the high bias for small scale music. I think that is a better compromise than never having the option of listening to music in class A.
      - Another option - Satie 22:39:41 02/10/17 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tell us about your room posted by Satie on February 10, 2017 at 22:12:48
        
        If you have long speaker cables and can place the amp in another room or a closet, try out a Crown XTI series amp with a rated output over 1kW at 4 ohms. The 4002 at $1k will probably do it. Or try the smallest Macrotech amp, the 5000i. or 5000HD at over 2kw into 4 ohms. (I use the older linear 5002.
    - Very nice - E-Stat 05:44:39 02/10/17 (1)
      I see you've experimented with tweeter in/out position, too.
      - RE: Very nice - finbad 09:59:31 02/10/17 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Very nice posted by E-Stat on February 10, 2017 at 05:44:39
        
        Indeed , I have practiced the baby step Maggie Waltz to The Blue Danube (toe in by degrees) as well as the HK/Limage setup
        
        Granted this "theatre room component" @ 12' and its mirrored front wall presents challenges far from ideal, though in practice from the various LPs experimented with, I am always quite satisfied, with magic happening more often (recording dependent) where it is I have settled (not as shown with then, greater toe in) .
        
        With the screen down seems to be preferable.
        
        HK/Limage (Open in New Window)

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