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In Reply to: RE:Viewing adjusting the Stereo content of a signal when mastering posted by Satie on September 21, 2016 at 05:49:45
I actually thing I got the best separation - though measured at a different time and place (though on the Grace Thorens) with my MicroAcoustics 530mp - but no my current stable of cartridges include the above and a Grado.
All of the cartridges do throw a nice spacial image for my on my modest sound system.
What is most interesting aspect is that when looking at the recorded signals there are magnitude variance in records and producers - looking at the vectorscope, a measureable difference in some CD's vs LP's is seen - the cartridge and turntable differences are modest.
It would be educational to make a recording on a current high end turntable.
I actually think you hit on a great idea... that a vectorscope analysis of a specific track and section (say a 10 second sample) would be and interesting way to assess difference in Cartridge, Arm, Table combinations.
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
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Are you talking about L-R vs L+R scope pic? Put into some vector form?
How do CD and LP differ in this regard?
Watch the video or link here. But essentiially yes. http://help.izotope.com/docs/ozone/pages/meters_vectorscope.htm
on and AAD CD Analog Tape tracks, Analog Mixdown/Master the differences were noticeable on a couple different Album/Song combos'
SuperTramp CoC. "Rudy" for for example assessing the whole track showed a wider spread in the CD master than in the Phono - though the software allows to to break the imaging information down in frequency bands, too!
This is where you can look to see if there are differences (stereo) in the low frequencies of a signal - and in my case also look for balance differences.
When "Remastering" it frees you from relying on the producers' choices for the presentation.
I use OZONE and RX primarily to fix errors in the vinyl transfer, reduce noise in the recording, and restore dynamics.
The latter is a lot less intrusive (and more flexibile) than my old dbx 3BX expander
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
Does the dynamic editing produce the same kind of pumping artifacts the DBX units did?
The problem I have with the digital image steering or soundstage editing is that localization is largely a matter of transients on the order of 10s of microsecs (not millisec) and requires some resolution into the single microsec range to preserve. We localize these to within 0.5 degrees while we localize sine waves only to 5-15 degrees in the lateral arc. Those can be represented effectively at 24/96 with some loss of info. and more completely with 24/192. But only DSD and double DSD really capture the short transients entirely.
My experience is that imaging off LP retains all this short transient info so images and the soundstage differ widely from one recording to the next of the standard orchestral layout in different recording spaces, while they image in a rather tight range on CD and vary in only a relatively small way from one recording to the next. The LP and CD versions of the same orchestral recording also don't image in the same locations with the LP generally preserving more depth and lateral placement variance among instruments. Though I have only few recs to compare, since recordings that are duplicated on both CD and LP as I generally try to avoid duplication in my collection.
How would you address that in using the software? The equivalent rate for capturing the short transients with some resolution in PCM is double DXD..
"Does the dynamic editing produce the same kind of pumping artifacts the DBX units did?"
I used the 3BX because it did a fairly decent job by breaking the analog processing into three different frequency bands. With Ozone, you have a lot of control over four different user adjustable bands - and you can take a sample and immediately hear with and without. Of course, you can use settings that have unwanted effects, but, especially with impulses, the restoration of an extra 5-15dB of dynamics is much more realistic.
"The problem I have with the digital image steering or soundstage editing is that localization is largely a matter of transients on the order of 10s of microsecs (not millisec) and requires some resolution into the single microsec range to preserve. We localize these to within 0.5 degrees while we localize sine waves only to 5-15 degrees in the lateral arc. Those can be represented effectively at 24/96 with some loss of info. and more completely with 24/192. But only DSD and double DSD really capture the short transients entirely. "
I work in 24/96 most of the time. I'll upsample a CD to that setting and my vinyl recordings are made at 24/96 most of the time. Transients that are broadband are important, whether you can localized them to 5 or one degree is really a factor of a lot of things (System and Room response, first reflection echo level (low is good) and first reflection frequency deviation from initial arrival, for instance. As you state resolution for tones are less precise - mainly though because of the nature of signal of the tone - with an intermitant tone, as we find in music, having a sin(x)/x envelope so that the frequency content doesn't have the bandwidth to cover the mid frequency and high frequency wavelengths to excite phase (timing) and diffraction (frequency) based localization cues to the brain.
You are right - and this fact is often ignored by audiophiles - that the Spatial qualities vary dramatically from recording to recording - usually a result of the choices made by the producer/engineer. But the differences you notice in LP vs CD can be caused by a number of artifacts. Remember your brain is trying to reconstruct a form of reality from the "un-real" acoustic signals that make up the recording - as well as added artifacts caused by digital mastering (44.1kHz, dithering techniques) and your system and room responses.
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
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