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Curious ... I see threads regarding rebuild/repair of older models (Tympani, MG-1, etc) but don't think I have seen one in the case of the original MG-20's (vintage late 90's). I was wondering if they are holding up better than the average bear, or they have not yet reached the ripe old age when some breakdowns start appearing?
Follow Ups:
MG20s have become pretty rare on the used market these days. 3-4 years ago you could always run into one online somewhere in North America; but not so much lately.
May I ask what the ball park figure is on the pair you're inquiring about?
The difficulty of rebuild/repair of the Magnepan 20 series is a major reason to absolutely avoid them IMO!
it's kinda like walking into a barn and finding a '69 Jaguar E type, you KNOW you've found something rare and exquisite but you also know eventually (or perhaps not) there will come a day when work might be needed under the hood.
I'd place MG20 in the same category as used Apogees. They're both large, heavy, and getting up there in age (hey aren't we all?). But just like a fine wine that's been stored and well taken care of, the results can be seductive as well as intoxicating for many, many years.
The 3.6 Midrange surface area is actually larger than the 20.1 Midrange surface area, and it's Midrange sounds sweeter.All the 20 series gives you over the 3 series, is lower bass, and an unrealistic bigger image IMO.
Edits: 08/13/16
The bigger image is a result of a cleaner midrange with a lighter driver. It is not an artificial soundstage. It is still slightly off in coherence with the tweeter, in the 20.1 but in the 20.7 it is supposed to have been solved and the speaker plays at one and does not have the occasional spatial anomalies that occurred on the Tympani IV and prior 20.x. models.
The 20-series has a separate midrange driver with lower moving mass. The midrange driver in the 3-series share its diaphragm with the bass, the midrange is to some degree "poluted" by the bass.
nt
Poor analogy: a couple of hours after savoring that fine wine the initial 'intoxication' would be over and done with. Intoxication from properly cared for MG20s should last much longer.
nt.
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
I haven't had the need to rebuild mine (knock on wood) and I wouldn't even want to tackle that task since the bass/midrange compartments are permanently sealed with rivets. Of course one could drill through them and re-rivet if compelled to I guess. I priced a rebuild from Magnepan 3 yrs ago; about $1700 per for new panel including labor but again that was 3 yrs ago.Longevity like any other Maggie typically relies on how much love you (or prior owner(s) have showered them ie keeping them out of direct Sun light.
HTH'd
Edits: 08/09/16
You cannot easily take the bass/mid section apart. You will need a rig that holds the two halves so that they cannot slide sideways - that is what happen if you drill out the rivets and you will destroy the diaphragm. Magnepan uses a special rig during manufactoring, http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/magnepan_mg201/assembly3.jpg and http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/magnepan_mg201/assembly4.jpg
Ok. So as sorta expected ... a well-cared-for pair is likely still within useful life, but a large repair cost best handled at factory if/when it happens. Unlikely but could be tomorrow, or more likely a few years out ...
Sigh ...
It's about a cost toss-up between these and new 1.7's ... But probably won't have room for either when I downsize in a couple years.
Practical Pig probably should go for the new 1.7's but the siren song of the 20's is so enticing ...
Without music, life would be a mistake.
--- Nietzsche
the marvelous ribbon tweeters just do some things the QR's don't, but, all the same, I've migrated back to my Gunn'ed 1.6's from my 3.6R's lately. Granted, the 20's are certainly a step up from 3-series.
BTW, where in NC are you?Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Edits: 08/11/16
Close ... Over in the Raleigh area.
Modded MMGs eh? I was considering a pair of those too ... Probably could survive my eventual downsize also, even if I just have to pull away from wall and position each session. I know he has maintained that anything past a modded 1.x model is at best diminishing returns. I'm new to planars and not trolling nor igniting, but does that match with your experience?
Without music, life would be a mistake.
--- Nietzsche
not equal but equivalent (or close). The Gunn'ed (Magnestand) 1.6's are MUCH better than stock, IMO, in overall clarity and, especially in dynamics , which I felt was the biggest area of weakness of the stock version. And of course, the two-ways have a coherency that's tough to achieve with the three-way. Now, in a bigger room, the 3.6R might have it all over the Magnestands as they might blend better, hard to know. The 3.6R's, being bigger, have a bit more authority, and the true ribbon has wonderful airiness and resolution- it's like the difference between a really good SDTV with a good source, and an HDTV.
PM me if at some point you'd like to swing by and compare/contrast the two.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
I've had gunned 1.6 and 3.6 stock running side by side in my house.
In the end, I kept the 3.6's.
I thought the gunned 1.6's had what sounded like a crossover problem and a midrange frequency response defect (can't remember if it was a bump or dip and didn't have measurement equipment then), and some azimuthal tonality changes. {I always wondered if I got the wrong crossover or something}
The mid-bass 'toe tapping' fun was really awesome though.
The FR issues were most prominent with acoustic classical (my typical genre) and a whole lot less with jazz or rock.
Today I run the 3.6's with an Anthem receiver serving as pre-amp and ARC room correction with a sub, which cleaned up some of the 3.6's primary weakness, which was an overactive 42Hz or so resonance and some other bass fuzziness.
The Magnestand 1.6 definitely ARE more midrange-forward than stock- and for me that is something of a plus, as the the 3.6R seems a bit midrange-reticent for my taste. But that's just me, and I could see how others might find that problematic, especially in a different room and certainly being music-dependent. Other than the midrange thing, though, they seem pretty well-balanced to me. The improvement in dynamics was the big leap forward IMO; bass is better, too, but less prominently. Punchier than the 3.6R but with less authority as befits its smaller size. Cliche alert: YMMV.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Were the 3.6 braced while comparison was going on. That tends to improve bass and dynamic perormance substantially and is one of the 3 main factors in the PG mod. Mye stands should do it and bridge the dynamic behavior gap about halfway with a gunned speaker.. .
I use a pair of home-made oak braces on the 3.6R's- probably not as good as the Mye stands but somewhat better than nothing, probably. Yours is a good point, though. I did have Mye stands on the stock 1.6's and they didn't improve the dynamics nearly as much as the Magnestand mod- I really do believe the hardwood frame plays a big part, as John (PG) claims. Hard to prove, of course, and there has been quite a bit of controversy over this on the MUG, as you may recall.
Mark in NC.
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
I've been listening to my G'MMGs since I disconnected my 20s back in May. The original plan was to have the GMMGs in front flanking the TV (although non HT) and the 20s off to the side wall hooked up to a pair of ICE amps along with a pair of Emotiva UPA mono amps.Problem is the GMMGs have been stealing the show ever since. The only issue is the lack of deep, authoritative bass the 20s can deliver. I've got them hooked up to a REL Strata II which I feel is a great pairing. For the little Maggies these suckers will play loud when called upon. The sound-staging Maggies are known for is there of course, so no need to re-visit that aspect; although I will point out in my 17x18'ish size room the soundstage 'encapsulates' the panels; meaning there's an almost perfect sphere surrounding both panels that extend about 2-3 feet out the rear and both sides, almost perpendicular along the plane. By comparison the 20s envelop 'the entire room' with a near perfect presence of instruments and performers in front of and you sense the room itself is the integral part of the system.
I have to agree the dynamics are greatly pronounced on the GMMGs, most evident on alto and baritone sax recordings (especially when they hit that 'belch' note on occasion).
But after 90 days and a great sense of them finally being broken in, I'll probably switch them back out this weekend with the 20s. My dilemma with the 20s is they really demand their own wall but I like to watch TV (muted) while I listen to music and surf the net all at the same time.The GMMGs are perfect in this arrangement and they don't draw away attention.I'll experiment with the 20s in different positions, one being them pushed out super wide and see how that'll work out.
the MG20s make this 18x18' room look tiny; contrary to the image, the ceiling is not 'bowed' (panorama picture).
Edits: 08/12/16 08/12/16 08/13/16 08/13/16 08/13/16 08/13/16 08/14/16
On the one hand, it would be nice to have one Maggie model that did it all. But on the other, we should feel fortunate that we have the option of switching out on whim to get different sets of attributes. Still, though, I wish they would do a 1.x size (which PG presumably would be willing to mod) with a ribbon. Ah, if wishes were horses...
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Mods ... thought I was in the Planar sub-forum ... could you move it there, or should I delete and repost?
Thanks!
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