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RE: MGIII active crossover?

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In Reply to: RE: MGIII active crossover? posted by Satie on August 08, 2016 at 09:32:46

It is hard finding crossovers for the right price. This outfit has a few:
http://www.audioproz.com/AP.php?Prod=Crossovers
Many are professional and mono but there are a few that might work. Could some of you please take a look and see what you think? I am looking for a 3 way now(3rd order?) because I have decided to tri-amp. I am trying to do this for less than $300.
Mac MC7106, Maggie MG111, ADS 810 & 780, Pioneer SC-1522, Carver M.0.5T, Dahlquist 903, Velodyne, Infinity

Edits: 08/08/16

Follow Ups:

RE: MGIII active crossover? - Satie 22:00:51 08/08/16 (1)
You should start with a biamp project at this point both for budget reasons and since it is where most of the benefit happens. From biamp to triamp the benefit is much smaller.

If the Ashly SC-77 is the 18 db 3rd order version (call them and ask) then that will be your starting point and you can at least use it permanently for the bass low pass. The mid HP would be a 1st order passive filer - just a capacitor in series to the input of the mid amp..

Some of the Furmans are 18db units.

If you are not big into analog, go with the digital option with mini DSP - preferably the HD variant.
- RE: MGIII active crossover? - BDP24 01:09:10 08/09/16 (0)
  The old Dahlquist DQ-LP1 has an active 18dB/octave LP section (along with 6dB passive HP).
RE: That link to the XOs ... - andyr 20:35:11 08/08/16 (6)
I looked at that list of XOs at the link you provided - most of them are not "fit for (your) purpose", IMO.

My recommendation - like others here - is to go for a digital XO. I recently replaced the 3-way analogue active XOs that I'd been using with my IIIas (and then my 'Frankenpans') for 15 years with a miniDSP 10x10Hd. This is more than you want to spend - but you could get stereo 3-way XOs by buying a pair of 2x4 units ($105 each) or, better, the new 2x4 Hd units ($205 each).

I'd happily give you my old analogue active XOs - which are set up for IIIas ... except that they are not 'plug-n-play'! :-(( You would need to get cases, wiring, power transformers etc., to make them work. Whereas with the miniDSP units, all you need to do is learn how to program the miniDSP software on your PC.

Good luck,

Andy

PS: And good luck with the re-wiring - it is not something I would ever contemplate (whereas the electronics side in NP at all!)
- RE: That link to the XOs ... - Skeepowder 08:33:08 08/09/16 (5)
  Andy, I read your post on MUG about active 3 way so that's why I started down this path. Those miniDSPs are interesting but super techie. I was hoping for easier. LOL. Not ruling them out though.
  Satie,I was wondering about the feasibility of putting in a 2way/3way switch on the back so I can have it both ways.
  Mac MC7106, Maggie MG111, ADS 810 & 780, Pioneer SC-1522, Carver M.0.5T, Dahlquist 903, Velodyne, Infinity
  - RE: That link to the XOs ... - Skeepowder 08:55:21 08/11/16 (4)
    I called the outfit on the Ashley and Furman. That guy talked a mile a minute and wouldn't let me say anything. He was really pushing me to hire him as an audio consultant and kept saying he would make amp recommendations despite the fact that I told him that I already had the Mac. I don't want to deal with him so that's that. That gear is all XLR anyway so that's just another complication.
    Still searching for the decent home unit with RCAs so I can just hook it up and turn it on. The miniDSP just looks complicated but I may have to go there if nothing else comes up.
    Mac MC7106, Maggie MG111, ADS 810 & 780, Pioneer SC-1522, Carver M.0.5T, Dahlquist 903, Velodyne, Infinity
    - RE: That link to the XOs ... - Satie 16:09:13 08/12/16 (3)
      Don't worry about the RCA inputs. TRS adapters are fairly cheap and XLR adapters cost about double that.
      
      The 2 way 3way switch would not be enough since biamping would have you keep internal components while triamping would not. so would require different paths inside the speaker for each setup. The gain from going from biamp to triamp is less cost effective so I would leave that for a second stage upgrade down the road.
      - RE: That link to the XOs ... - Skeepowder 16:59:17 08/12/16 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: That link to the XOs ... posted by Satie on August 12, 2016 at 16:09:13
        
        I hear you Satie on the 2 way vs 3 way setup. But dagnabbit I got a 6 channel amp which just tilts the whole argument toward 3 way and with 2 way those extra 2 channels are just wasting away (oh dear). And I need a crossover so it might as well be 3 way. BTW I just got that amp back from the shop and it's close to perfect. And I sold my boat yesterday and there is just a little extra cash.
        If you were in my shoes would you go for 3 way?
        Mac MC7106, Maggie MG111, ADS 810 & 780, Pioneer SC-1522, Carver M.0.5T, Dahlquist 903, Velodyne, Infinity
        
        RE: That link to the XOs ... - Satie 06:46:56 08/13/16 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: That link to the XOs ... posted by Skeepowder on August 12, 2016 at 16:59:17
        
        Triamping the 3A requires particular crossover alignment. The stock alignment is not reproducible for triamping with a commercial analog crossover. You would need to either rework the XO into one of the simpler schemes that have been worked out for it for passive line level. Or have a flexible crossover such as the XM44 or the First Watt B4, or one similar to AndyR's custom DIY job. The best choice among these for an experienced DIY electronics builder is the kind of XO AndyR built. But with power supplies and box it adds up.
        If you go for the triamping with the simplified mid and tweeter passive line level filters then a 3rd order Ashly or Furman piece will provide you with a good bass low pass filter.
        
        If you go for reproducing the mid tweeter XO in the original slopes and elbow frequencies then you would need a real active stage for that since they are 2nd and 3rd order and not textbook slopes. You can get that done with a multichannel 5.1 AV pre processor as Computerman did on this forum. That would provide all the gain channels you need and buffering and individual channel level adjustments. With that basic component you can do any crossover alignment up to 2nd order with passive components.
        
        But the complexity gets really bad. So my suggestion is to wait till you have the budget for a First Watt B4 crossover (it is 2 way) and add the 3rd order commercial piece for bass LP and that would allow you to triamp precisely as you can. But that will definitely blow up your budget.
        
        For the passive 1st order mid tweeter section in passive line level, Davey from the UK has worked out a crossover alignment that can be implemented easily with just the commercial 3rd order for bass LP and passive components.
        
        The DSP crossover option - like minidsp is an order of magnitude more flexible and has room correction options. If you are playing predominantly digital sources then you have nothing to lose using the DSP. if you have the budget then a DEQX unit would be the way to go.
        
        RE: That link to the XOs ... - Skeepowder 08:19:12 08/13/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: That link to the XOs ... posted by Satie on August 13, 2016 at 06:46:56
        
        I've just about made the decision on the miniDSP 4x10 for $500. The others are too expensive or not as configurable. I've read about half of the manual. I can use it 2 or 3 way and it seems like it will do all the needed slopes and configurations. I don't have any records or tapes so there is no analog input but it will do both if my gear changes in the future. And it has RCAs. The XLRs were just one more issue and expense on the others. The computer setup on the mini DSP is near the limits of my abilities but I 'll just have to adapt.
        Thanks guys.
        Bobber
        Mac MC7106, Maggie MG111, ADS 810 & 780, Pioneer SC-1522, Carver M.0.5T, Dahlquist 903, Velodyne, Infinity

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