Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

Good to see BG back.

98.253.102.51

In Reply to: RE: That's great news. TY. (NT) posted by jeffreybehr on April 17, 2016 at 14:49:22

The B-G drivers have quite low distortion, compared to other ribbon and planar drivers of similar size. They are a well engineered product. It's good to see them back. Anyone know why they disappeared?

Follow Ups:

RE: Good to see BG back. - Satie 20:01:12 05/29/16 (16)
A non audio company bought them from the founder's estate and was trying strong arm OEM marketing techniques that blew in their face. As part of the scheme they took the drivers off the DIY market.
- RE: Good to see BG back. - BDP24 23:02:35 05/29/16 (15)
  What are the differences between the PDR and non-PDR versions of the NEO 8? Both are dipoles, correct?
  - RE: Good to see BG back. - Satie 07:04:12 05/30/16 (14)
    The PDR version has a damping layer in it that acts as an acoustic lens and provides better dispersion at higher freq. You can make a line array of Neo8 PDR and not use a tweeter. The PDR version does not play as low as the regular Neo8 and has more limited power handling and 1+ db lower sensitivity. So for use in a line array you would need a line of 8 or 9 to obtain similar extension at the low end as you get from a line of 6 regular drivers (appx down to 200 hz.but 250hz -3db point.)
    - RE: Good to see BG back. - Norman M 07:33:48 06/02/16 (1)
      Is it safe to assume that any amplifier which 'comfortably' drives a Tympani IV/IV-A MR + ribbon tweeter wouldn't be phased (pun intended!) when it confronts the MR and array of nine Neo8s?
      
      Edits: 06/02/16
      - RE: Good to see BG back. - guitar slim 07:48:25 06/02/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Good to see BG back. posted by Norman M on June 02, 2016 at 07:33:48
        
        Pretty safe, I think. You can wire the NEOs in a series/parallel arrangement to produce a reasonably easy to drive load. And the NEOs are more efficient, so power should not be a problem.
        
        You may find the NEOs somewhat more revealing, so whatever character the amp has may be more apparent.
    - RE: Good to see BG back. - BDP24 13:59:01 05/30/16 (11)
      Great, thanks Satie. Non-PDR it is! Is Parts Express the place to buy them (as soon as they actually get some, and I have the dough!), or is there a better source? And is the new production quality the same as the old, if anyone yet knows?
      
      Edits: 05/30/16
      - RE: Good to see BG back. - josh358 20:51:30 06/03/16 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Good to see BG back. posted by BDP24 on May 30, 2016 at 13:59:01
        
        I had a chance to speak to someone from Parts Express today at THE Show, and he told me that they will now be the exclusive American dealer for the BG drivers. He also said they were probably going to add a few more to the three they're now carrying, but wasn't sure which ones. Neo-8 PDR and Neo-8 S, perhaps? The RD series drivers, however, will no longer be available.
        
        Edits: 06/03/16 06/03/16
        
        RE: Good to see BG back. - Satie 00:39:37 06/04/16 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Good to see BG back. posted by josh358 on June 03, 2016 at 20:51:30
        
        Hey man
        
        Anything particularly impressive at the show? That is other than price tags?
        
        RE: Good to see BG back. - josh358 07:33:07 06/04/16 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Good to see BG back. posted by Satie on June 04, 2016 at 00:39:37
        
        LOL, yes, I've seen some very interesting stuff, including some remarkably tiny base traps from Synergistic Research and at least 370 degrees of stable surround from two channel. Would love to write about it now but meeting a group for breakfast so it will have to be tonight. I'm planning to post the planar news here including Magnepan's demo (3 channels using the Bryston-Magnepan processor, very holographic) but it took too long to get the photos transferred from my phone last night to get anything up.
        
        RE: Good to see BG back. - Satie 09:56:18 06/04/16 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Good to see BG back. posted by josh358 on June 04, 2016 at 07:33:07
        
        Were there any DEQX type time corrected systems on demo?
        
        Some Info on DEQX and Maggies - josh358 19:14:07 06/04/16 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Good to see BG back. posted by Satie on June 04, 2016 at 09:56:18
        
        Hmmm thought I'd answered this from my phone during lunch but I guess it didn't go through!
        
        Anyway, the answer is yes. they Kyron dynamic dipoles are tri-amped with DEQX. Great imaging.
        
        Unfortunately, DEQX wasn't demoing with Maggies this year -- they did that last year. They had an impressive demo of a cheap, awful sounding $20 horn -- the transformation with DEQX is stunning. But of course that's just a show gimmick for demo purposes. They were demoing with custom speakers, but I didn't really get a chance to listen to that demo for various reasons. However, I spent some time talking to Alan Langford, their general manager, and he was kind enough to answer a range of questions about setup with Maggies.
        
        First of all, he said that they already have curves for many Maggie models, so no driver calibration is necessary. I told him that I was doing a custom build with Neo 8's, and asked about the procedure for doing calibration yourself. He said that with dipoles, the calibration has to be done in a very large space to avoid backwave reflections -- outdoors, or in a large space like a gymnasium. He recommends that the measurements be made from 3 meters, so that relative driver timing is representative of what it will be at the listening position.
        
        Alan also said that the early models will daisy chain with the newer ones, so it's possible e.g. to use an old model for a subwoofer. Apparently, the older models are starting to show up at very attractive prices. He said that Larry, their dealer in Denver, maintains some used stock and is the expert on what is available. An early model could go for as little as $1000.
        
        He said they've also started using an audio player from Roon Labs -- which I saw elsewhere in the show -- rather than JRiver. It streams directly to the current units (as does JRiver).
        
        I asked about the backwave and he said that it's corrected with parametric room EQ, using the DEQX's IIR filters.
        
        RE: Some Info on DEQX and Maggies - Satie 00:03:03 06/05/16 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Info on DEQX and Maggies posted by josh358 on June 04, 2016 at 19:14:07
        
        Do you think a room stuffed with mattresses pillows and comforters or whatever absorptive stuff is available behind the speakers could substitute for open air or an anechoic chamber for the speaker measurements?
        
        We should ask Guitar Slim and Helmholz how they did their speaker measurements.
        
        I must say there is nothing to pick at in the Kyron speaker-amp-processor package but for the hefty 6 digit price for the "small" kronos model .
        
        I don't know how well it all works together but it looks very promising.I particularly like how they figured to support the drivers by their magnets to reduce resonances. Also the CLD metal frame shows both attention to detail and colossal overkill with Ayre like slabs of Al.
        
        I was wondering if the DEQX corrected speakers managed to outdo unprocessed linear phase time aligned systems you heard before in imaging soundstage and detail.
        
        RE: Some Info on DEQX and Maggies - josh358 09:46:37 06/05/16 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Info on DEQX and Maggies posted by Satie on June 05, 2016 at 00:03:03
        
        I can tell you that the imaging on the Kyron was very impressive -- good enough that I made a note about its great imaging (my senile brain being what it is these days, I jotted down some of the high points so I could report back). But it's hard to compare it to other time-aligned systems, given variable show conditions, recordings, speaker placement, etc. I don't remember being blown away by detail, but that is presumably a function of the dynamnic drivers rather than the DEQX.
        
        I did notice, consistently, that dipoles made the best images. They were pretty much the only images in which I had a real sense of localization. Many of the dynamics put the images all over the place -- up, down, sideways. Of course there wre a lot of crap recordings, I asked them to play an orchestral recording when I could but in many cases that wasn't possible and I had to listen to awful multimiked recordings with a singer about 80 dB louder than Caruso.
        
        Seems to me I had a discussion with Helmholz about his measurement techniques a couple of years ago, you might be able to find it here. Stuffing the room might be adequate for higher frequencies, but it wouldn't get the low. In fact, IIRC, Alan Langford said that even an anechoic chamber can be inadequate for this purpose, since they aren't anechoic at low frequencies. And unfortunately gated measurements don't really work.
        
        I was pleased overall with the sound of the Kyron but of course show conditions don't really allow one to hear the system at its best. It seemed promising (except for the price tag). By and large, I was impressed by the point source dipoles, they really did almost as well as the line sources in conveying a sense of space. But more later, have to leave for the show.
        
        RE: Some Info on DEQX and Maggies - Satie 15:05:29 06/05/16 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Info on DEQX and Maggies posted by josh358 on June 05, 2016 at 09:46:37
        
        I guess that leaves you with just the option of taking the speaker out to the driveway on a clear day without wind and measuring there. Perhaps at the open garage door with the backwave facing out.
        
        I too never found point sources to image as well as the line sources So once I heard my firt Tympani speaker in 1982 it confirmed my suspicion from hearing the CLS earlier that something is fundamentally wrong with point source speakers. I presumed it was the multiple drivers in a 3 way not being time aligned and theory from the brit hifi press that it relates to crossover order not preserving phase. So I went with a vandersteen 2C when I had the chance and it did a great job on imaging but for a somewhat random height distribution for instruments from the general plane of the orchestra. It also lacked detail relative to what I remembered from the CLS and Quad 57.
        
        Then I discovered Apogees and that told me that it is the drivers and the line source geometry. They were nearly as resolving as the ESLs and had all the imaging characteristics of the Tympani I heard before just with obviously more detail. I could not imagine why anyone who could afford them would prefer taking an expensive box home. Nothing else produced that kind of realistic imaging and holographic soundstage and still reveal so much detail. Not the big Vandersteens in the same room, not the Thiels at the competing dealer, not the B&W (which compared badly to the Thiels because the B&W were not time aligned)
        
        RE: Some Info on DEQX and Maggies - josh358 10:33:25 06/06/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Some Info on DEQX and Maggies posted by Satie on June 05, 2016 at 15:05:29
        
        I was actually impressed by the imaging of the point source dipoles I heard at Newport. Not the equal of a line source, no, but significantly better than almost all of the boxes I heard. The boxes did depth and spread, yes, but for the most part they didn't give the palpable "it's out there" imaging that the dipoles did. Of course, this was under show conditions.
      - RE: Good to see BG back. - Satie 11:23:07 06/01/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Good to see BG back. posted by BDP24 on May 30, 2016 at 13:59:01
        
        Madisound is another source that used to carry them. I only bought from them two pairs on a discount opportunity. Otherwise I bought from PE.
        They had some inventory recently (last week), I don't know if any are left at this point.
      - RE: Good to see BG back. - 3car 23:09:48 05/31/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Good to see BG back. posted by BDP24 on May 30, 2016 at 13:59:01
        
        Are there any companies out there with old stock of BG speakers? I'd like to find the BG Radia 220i or 220DX center channel.
        
        P.S. Is the 220DX the same as the 220, but with aluminum? Or is the 220 something completely different (older?).

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