Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

RE: So much for fuses on the mid-range then! ...

101.181.209.14

In Reply to: RE: So the mid-range fuse didn't save it? nt posted by PoisonM on April 14, 2016 at 00:45:34

I deleted mine, long ago.

And my ribbon fuses about 6 years ago, for the same reason (they rarely protect the driver).

Andy

Follow Ups:

RE: So much for fuses on the mid-range then! ... - Norman M 09:50:57 04/19/16 (0)
I've been listening to the same pair of Tympani IV-As for 25+ years. They have always been fused (4amps/MR and 3.5/Tweeters). In all that time I have not burned out any part of the speakers, however many, many fuses. In the early years of my listening I played them absurdly loud, so I know why fuses burned. Nowadays I'm not given to playing them that loud, however I burn fuses when stupidly switching to a source set to play at a much louder level than the previous one.

Unrelated to fuses, there's never been any banana peel I can detect (nothing lifting from the panels and they never buzz no matter how loud I might attempt playing them). They remain *stock*, in the same state I bought them.
RE: So much for fuses on the mid-range then! ... - PoisonM 02:58:29 04/14/16 (15)
While this is the first time we experienced failure in the midrange, I can attest from multiple tweeter failures that the fuses don't protect them at least when it comes to the 20.7
- RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - andyr 04:34:13 04/16/16 (14)
  The reason why the ribbon blows is that the amp is in clipping mode - this produces a 'spray' of HF harmonics ... which produces much more current through the ribbons than normal music does.
  So maybe you need to buy a more powerful amp for your 20.7s??
  Another way of stopping this happening is to replace the 20.7's passive XO with an active XO and a second (or a third) amp. Here, the frequency splitting happens in front of the amplifiers (not at the speakers) - so the ribbon amp is immune to the effect of fierce current draw by the bass amp, when dealing with loud LFs, which send it into clipping.
  
  Regards,
  Andy
  
  Edits: 04/16/16
  - RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - PoisonM 05:19:46 04/16/16 (13)
    Thanks for the tips Andy. Unfortunately in my case it wasn't from the lack of power. The 20.7 was driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k and still gave us problems.
    
    I like the active crossover idea but I have since given up on Maggies and have pass them along to a friend which is when the panel gave way. He is now awaiting replacement panels and I have gone the way of a active vertical bi-amped boxy.
    
    Still, it's undeniable the 20.7 when working well are spectacular (in spite of the short comings), even more so when matched with very high quality gear.
    - RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... - andyr 14:46:41 04/16/16 (4)
      Wow! Even with 1Kw available.
      
      Then the problem with the 20.7 must be what one of the other posters said ... Magnepan set the bass LP / mid HP XO too low (given it's only 1st order). It needs to be up one octave. Fairly simple to do, if your mate feels like preventing a recurrence of a blown mid.
      
      Regards,
      
      Andy
      - RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... - PoisonM 02:38:21 04/17/16 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... posted by andyr on April 16, 2016 at 14:46:41
        
        I think getting the replacement panel replaced and up and running is his priority. My mate plays them really loud so how the panel stands up to that kind of punishment will dictate if he stays or goes my route,
        I will certainly pass on the info regardless..after all one more option is always welcomed.
        
        Edits: 04/17/16
        
        RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... - Satie 03:02:17 04/18/16 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... posted by PoisonM on April 17, 2016 at 02:38:21
        
        Does your friend use a subwoofer? That might prevent the amp from clipping if the bass is taken off it's power duties.
        
        We also discussed raising the XO by an octave but retaining the low order slopes.
        
        RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... - PoisonM 11:12:40 04/18/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... posted by Satie on April 18, 2016 at 03:02:17
        
        He does not use subs and neither did I when I had them. We both share a broad music repertoire and we like it loud. I think both of us realize the short comings of the 20.7 but we can live with it given when the music flows, there is no need to analyze or dissect the music..just being one with the music suffice.
        
        I believe subs are inherently hard to integrate properly with planars and prefer it's when systems are kept simple. For that reason we never attempted to mess around with subs.
        
        I will pass along the info Andy and yourself shared regarding the XO mod but inherently he isn't a tinkerer and I cannot foresee him attempting to.
      - RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... - Satie 15:14:49 04/16/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "driven with amps ranging from 400W up to 1k" ... posted by andyr on April 16, 2016 at 14:46:41
        
        I clipped my Crown 5002vz and drove it to thermal shut down and it is rated 2X2.5kw @1khz and 2X2kw @20-20khz Just driving the bass panel.
        
        Actually likely that a 400W amp would clip in single amp drive 1kw - not that likely.
    - RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - Satie 13:42:17 04/16/16 (7)
      So what box speakers did you end up with?
      - RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - PoisonM 02:39:45 04/17/16 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: multiple tweeter failures ... posted by Satie on April 16, 2016 at 13:42:17
        
        Ended up with a pair of FM Acoustics speakers, running them active vertical biamped.
        
        Edits: 04/17/16
        
        RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - Satie 10:01:55 04/17/16 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: multiple tweeter failures ... posted by PoisonM on April 17, 2016 at 02:39:45
        
        How did you get those? Are they the direct driven XS model that they seem to insist on not selling - sort of like Aston Martins? Did you have to buy the entire amp chain from them before you could order the speaker?
        Their cost is insane.
        
        RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - PoisonM 10:12:25 04/17/16 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: multiple tweeter failures ... posted by Satie on April 17, 2016 at 10:01:55
        
        Yes there are the XS speakers that FM does not sell on a commercial basis. Yes you have to be fulfill certain requirements before the XS would be offered to you.
        
        I was already using their components on the Maggies. Hence it was for me a natural progression albeit it was a hard decision to leave the Maggies route.
        
        RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - Satie 02:59:18 04/18/16 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: multiple tweeter failures ... posted by PoisonM on April 17, 2016 at 10:12:25
        
        I am not so much impressed by your leaving the Maggies than by the costly substitute. I am thinking about you going for a more compact line source planar speaker to get some of the maggie magic back. Like a Wisdom, or a Carver ALS with dual subs, or a hybrid Scaena,
        
        RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - PoisonM 11:04:29 04/18/16 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: multiple tweeter failures ... posted by Satie on April 18, 2016 at 02:59:18
        
        My apologies to the thread starter for deviating from the main topic.
        
        I posted a thread some time back regarding suggestions for alternatives to the 20.7 and received many suggestions...some are not readily available in my part of the world, others I have heard but didn't fit as replacements. I lived with the Minis, 1.7, 3.7 and 20.7..the Maggie magic is not easily replaceable.
        
        I have also had many opportunities to listen to the FM XS systems..they were unforgettable. I was already using FM components so when the offer came along I sold my kidneys together with all my other internal organs rendering me a zombie (albeit one that enjoys his music) for the XS. IMO, it took that much to replace the Maggies.
        
        RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - Satie 23:57:21 04/18/16 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: multiple tweeter failures ... posted by PoisonM on April 18, 2016 at 11:04:29
        
        Well, that puts the Maggie value proposition in perspective.
        
        Anyway congrats on obtaining the unobtanium and one of the most respected single source systems known.
        
        RE: multiple tweeter failures ... - PoisonM 13:19:13 04/19/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: multiple tweeter failures ... posted by Satie on April 18, 2016 at 23:57:21
        
        They certainly do.
        
        Cheers.

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