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In Reply to: RE: RIbbons for ribbons posted by Davey on February 08, 2016 at 15:11:37
Allen was many things but a shyster he was not. His cables and other products were the real deal.
What would you like me to measure Dave? L? C? R? Whoo hooo! I own Goertz ribbon cables and they have the lowest L in the business. Wireworld also thinks a low L and low R is more important than C. What would work best in your opinion?
I do believe in measurements but not as they are often used by design engineers. I am a scientist who is looking for real information in the measurments (take amplifier distortion for example...there are lot of reasons you were not right in an earlier discussion regarding amps and they are all technical and objective).
At the end of the day though you cannot be 100% objective about audio because at the end of the day the final aribiter is the listener and they are decidely NOT objective measurements. How the objective correlates with the subjective seems to be the area where you come across as distinctly uncomfortable and fall back into the "the numbers say it can't be so!!"
"As usual, you've mischaracterized my statements."
Please give detailed examples where I have mischaracterized your statements. I have simply taken what you have said and contrasted this against what a well respected cable/preamp/amp designer I knew personally and had experience with his products has said about cable design. What he said held up in his products and what you have said goes against the experiences and some theories of others.
Follow Ups:
"Please give detailed examples where I have mischaracterized your statements. I have simply taken what you have said and contrasted this against what a well respected cable/preamp/amp designer I knew personally and had experience with his products has said about cable design. What he said held up in his products and what you have said goes against the experiences and some theories of others."
You just did it again! You characterized me as being 100% objective about audio. I believe in objective evaluation, but I have NEVER claimed there isn't a subjective aspect. The percentage ratio is the item in question. Are you really that dense that you don't even recognize these mischaracterizations when you apply them?? Good golly man.
A scientist with the amount of dichotomy that you exhibit is not the type of person I would want designing any products....or drugs....that I might consume. I'm glad audio is only a hobby for you.
Dave.
"You just did it again! You characterized me as being 100% objective about audio. I believe in objective evaluation, but I have NEVER claimed there isn't a subjective aspect. The percentage ratio is the item in question. Are you really that dense that you don't even recognize these mischaracterizations when you apply them?? Good golly man.
"
Did what again? I didn't say you were 100% objectivist...read the statement again. The "you" there is a general statement...I could have replaced this with "one" and it would mean the same thing. But, you are clearly more in the objectivist camp or is that also mischaracterizing you as well?? I don't hear anything from you about listening and how that correlates with measurements. If you go back and read a lot of my posts you will see that I bang that gong pretty hard.
"A scientist with the amount of dichotomy that you exhibit is not the type of person I would want designing any products....or drugs....that I might consume. "
dichotomy?? There is no dichotomy Mr. Davey. I am about as pure a scientist as you are likely to find. One of the first principles of science is observation and the use of such to form hypothesis and then attempt to disprove them. I do nothing more and nothing less. I take measurements and try to see how they apply to what is observed (aka. listening) that for me is the final frontier of audio. You seem to forget that audio is not like a lot of other sciences because it involves a direct human response that has to be considered rather than ignored in the pursuit of a theoretical "ideal" of measurements.
There's a reason why I don't bang my gong with subjective evaluations. If you were paying attention fifteen years ago on the Apogee forum, you'd know the reason why. :) I haven't changed my evaluation of (other people's) subjective evaluation in many decades.
Anyways, you can bang your gong all you want. :)
Dave.
" If you were paying attention fifteen years ago on the Apogee forum, you'd know the reason why. :) "
Like I remember what was said on the Apogee forum 15 years ago. Most of the guys there had no idea how to get really great sound from those amazing speakers anyway...
Yeah, but you did. Ha!
Classic.
Dave.
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