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In Reply to: RE: They're Alive!!!! posted by E-Stat on January 24, 2016 at 17:32:20
So they built the stator grid with a much heavier gauge material? so the basic core is far more stiff?
I was always impressed by the big soundlabs, just that they require some more space are really heavy and cost way more than I could ever afford. What I did listen to was the A1 thinking at least I could afford it and it didn't require more space than a T IV. But it was not great on dynamic material. It also didn't have an edge relative to the Neo8 line on mids and the TIV ribbons were better on top in general. It definitely was better than the OEM T IV mids.
Follow Ups:
to this response to GL, you'll find a link to the SL website that describes the difference. It's more significant than simply beefing up the existing structure.
was always impressed by the big soundlabs, just that they require some more space are really heavy and cost way more than I could ever afford.
Perhaps you aren't aware there are actually five differently sized models with multiple variations of frame type - either basic wood, "furniture grade" wood or in my case, tubular steel. The M3 costs about what a Maggie 20.7 does and uses essentially the same technology as the larger units - just reduced panel area. You might want to spend a little time persuing the SL website. The baby is the M3.
Kent (kentaja) who sold me the new cores just sold a demo pair of M3s and is replacing them with an upcoming smaller model with a "U" (for ultimate) designation. That typically means a steel frame and "hot rodded" backplates. He tells me there are many folks who, while they may have the budget for the large units, simply don't have the space where the smaller units might fit in.
It also didn't have an edge relative to the Neo8 line on mids and the TIV ribbons were better on top in general.
For me, their greatest strength is the incredible coherency that you simply won't find with multi-way speakers. I cut my teeth forty years ago on Tympanis and owned MG-IIs myself, but when I first heard a true full range electostat, ie. one panel or multiple identical panels handling the entire range (unlike a Quad 57, Kingsound, or Martin Logan CLX), I was hooked. I'd rather not dissect music into the mids, top, etc. How does it sound playing an instrument that spans all the drivers? Especially mixing dipole drivers with monopole woofers. As for dynamics, I can now say that the PX panels are superior to the previous technology ones.
In my setup I run the mids from 250 to their acoustic rolloff on top (~11-14khz depending on toe in) and add the tweeter in for the rest of the top octave in 1st order.
The result is far more coherent than was the case for the original T IV but the transition to the bass (LR4 at 190hz at the moment, 150hz butterworth 3 before and probably soon again) is not quite seamless. This is a constraint of woofer positioning for wall loading.
When run with the panels in an equidistant arc I can apply 1st order XOs and things are more coherent and entirely seamless. Unfortunately, that eats lots of bottom octave power.
Can the current U1 do a convincing large scale orchestral piece in full tilt? My T IV Neo 8 can do my reference drums from the rights of spring to 115 db peak (peak hold fast response C weighting) and with wall loading and bracing can do the 16hz organ note fundamentals not only audibly but loudly.
I am assuming the M3 is not quite there in output capacity..
Interesting setup Satie,Tympani IV with NEO8's ( how many) I'm not surprised you can run them fullrange as the standard 8's had a 18db peak at 12K and is still 5db out at 15K, you would have to run your tweeters really hot to have any real compensation above 12K, Did you have to eq them ..?
Since ESL's voice differently from Magnostats, who in turn tend to mix easier with other type of drive units, they( ESL) are very difficult to mix with other topologies, personally i prefer the voicing on magnostats, but that is not to say one is superior to the other, i have had good times with both, It's very difficult to put ESL's with anything else due to said voicing and Big ESL's have no issues delivering large scale music, they will need room to do so and really large multiple woofers if you want to add subs.
A big Tympani system as yours will move a lot of air, maybe more than an U1 in the bass, not necessarily better .
Regards.
Edits: 01/26/16
The resonance peak is cancelled with multiple drivers in a line array (I use 6 per side where there is a slight residual left from the resonance peak but it does disappear entirely with 8 drivers). The acoustic rolloff on top is 11khz to 14khz depending on horizontal angle.
I presume that bass output couples with additional ESL panels but there is the practicality of space - the big SL panels don't fit into my 7' and change ceilings. I guess I should not be talking about giant footprints since I use Tympanis.
I had good luck with matching bipolar subs to the panels but don't need them any longer.
Can the current U1 do a convincing large scale orchestral piece in full tilt?
You'd have to answer that question yourself. Try listening to a pair driven by something like Siegfrieds or REF750s. If that's not enough, choose one of the two larger models. Since they are full range with controlled directivity, build an even larger array like Ray Kimber did at CES and RMAF for several years running.
...and with wall loading and bracing can do the 16hz organ note fundamentals not only audibly but loudly.
The rated frequency range is quite similar. Magnepan claims response to 30 hz. Once again, if the standard panels aren't enough, add the subwoofer flavor, the UB-1 with special diaphragms designed for first octave duty.
I am assuming the M3 is not quite there in output capacity.
I was comparing two production speakers of similar investment.
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