Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

Arrived safely!

206.255.213.61

First time around truckers skewered the crates and damaged the U-1 cores. Snowy weather here today and will be traveling to a Kaki King concert this weekend, but should get the PX panels installed next week. :)

Follow Ups:

I can hardly wait to see them...to discover what they are. :-) (NT) - jeffreybehr 23:05:10 01/30/16 (1)
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- RE: I can hardly wait to see them...to discover what they are. :-) (NT) - E-Stat 05:23:28 01/31/16 (0)
  Click here for an intermediary view.
  
  Then follow my moniker to the gallery to see them in the room.
Looks like fun - G Squared 17:05:01 01/25/16 (0)
I am getting the itch.

Enjoy
They're Alive!!!! - E-Stat 12:05:58 01/24/16 (13)
New cores in place, powered up and rockin' out! Look virtually identical from the outside although you can see the PX lattice looks different behind the spandex.

Now just sit back for a bit of break in whilst I'm enjoying some new music. :)
- RE: They're Alive!!!! - Satie 13:03:46 01/24/16 (12)
  Congrats!!!
  
  What is the initial performance like relative to how they were before?
  
  How about pics of the finished deal?
  - RE: They're Alive!!!! - E-Stat 17:32:20 01/24/16 (11)
    Initial performance:
    
    Nothing short of magic. More focus in the midrange. More dynamic extension. Tighter bass. I listened to a mix of new recordings:
    
    Andreas Vollenweider - Caverna Magica
    
    Plucked harp transients more focused. Sense of hall air with more clarity and depth. Percussive drum reveals more "skin"
    
    A Chorus Line - 40th Anniversary 24/96
    
    Donna's vocal dynamics were phenomenally rendered with The Music and the Mirror . Fine details of the orchestra's instruments were presented up close. The sense of space was improved.
    
    Star Wars Episode IV - 24/96
    
    Here's an old friend that I first heard nearly forty years ago. The high def version provides an even better showcase for the woodwinds and brass. The Desert and the Robot Auction cut with the Jawas includes many tasty woodwinds. The reediness of the oboes was more palpable. The fluglehorn playing Luke's theme towards the end sounded more real than in previous memory.
    
    As I mentioned, the new cores are visually identical to the older ones. What changed in the way the stator assembly is built. Ideally, you would see both cores sans grill cloth, but I wasn't going to ruin either by ripping them off. Perhaps you might get a sense of the far more rigid structure and control of the diaphragms by contrasting the following two pics. The first is a pic of the older panel design of my U-1s. The second is that of a larger 945, but the stator grid lattice is identical.
    - RE: They're Alive!!!! - Satie 12:42:38 01/25/16 (5)
      So they built the stator grid with a much heavier gauge material? so the basic core is far more stiff?
      
      I was always impressed by the big soundlabs, just that they require some more space are really heavy and cost way more than I could ever afford. What I did listen to was the A1 thinking at least I could afford it and it didn't require more space than a T IV. But it was not great on dynamic material. It also didn't have an edge relative to the Neo8 line on mids and the TIV ribbons were better on top in general. It definitely was better than the OEM T IV mids.
      - If you return - E-Stat 13:13:02 01/25/16 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: They're Alive!!!! posted by Satie on January 25, 2016 at 12:42:38
        
        to this response to GL, you'll find a link to the SL website that describes the difference. It's more significant than simply beefing up the existing structure.
        
        was always impressed by the big soundlabs, just that they require some more space are really heavy and cost way more than I could ever afford.
        
        Perhaps you aren't aware there are actually five differently sized models with multiple variations of frame type - either basic wood, "furniture grade" wood or in my case, tubular steel. The M3 costs about what a Maggie 20.7 does and uses essentially the same technology as the larger units - just reduced panel area. You might want to spend a little time persuing the SL website. The baby is the M3.
        
        Kent (kentaja) who sold me the new cores just sold a demo pair of M3s and is replacing them with an upcoming smaller model with a "U" (for ultimate) designation. That typically means a steel frame and "hot rodded" backplates. He tells me there are many folks who, while they may have the budget for the large units, simply don't have the space where the smaller units might fit in.
        
        It also didn't have an edge relative to the Neo8 line on mids and the TIV ribbons were better on top in general.
        
        For me, their greatest strength is the incredible coherency that you simply won't find with multi-way speakers. I cut my teeth forty years ago on Tympanis and owned MG-IIs myself, but when I first heard a true full range electostat, ie. one panel or multiple identical panels handling the entire range (unlike a Quad 57, Kingsound, or Martin Logan CLX), I was hooked. I'd rather not dissect music into the mids, top, etc. How does it sound playing an instrument that spans all the drivers? Especially mixing dipole drivers with monopole woofers. As for dynamics, I can now say that the PX panels are superior to the previous technology ones.
        
        RE: If you return - Satie 20:23:02 01/25/16 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: If you return posted by E-Stat on January 25, 2016 at 13:13:02
        
        In my setup I run the mids from 250 to their acoustic rolloff on top (~11-14khz depending on toe in) and add the tweeter in for the rest of the top octave in 1st order.
        
        The result is far more coherent than was the case for the original T IV but the transition to the bass (LR4 at 190hz at the moment, 150hz butterworth 3 before and probably soon again) is not quite seamless. This is a constraint of woofer positioning for wall loading.
        
        When run with the panels in an equidistant arc I can apply 1st order XOs and things are more coherent and entirely seamless. Unfortunately, that eats lots of bottom octave power.
        
        Can the current U1 do a convincing large scale orchestral piece in full tilt? My T IV Neo 8 can do my reference drums from the rights of spring to 115 db peak (peak hold fast response C weighting) and with wall loading and bracing can do the 16hz organ note fundamentals not only audibly but loudly.
        
        I am assuming the M3 is not quite there in output capacity..
        
        RE: If you return - A.Wayne 12:07:45 01/26/16 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: If you return posted by Satie on January 25, 2016 at 20:23:02
        
        Interesting setup Satie,
        Tympani IV with NEO8's ( how many) I'm not surprised you can run them fullrange as the standard 8's had a 18db peak at 12K and is still 5db out at 15K, you would have to run your tweeters really hot to have any real compensation above 12K, Did you have to eq them ..?
        Since ESL's voice differently from Magnostats, who in turn tend to mix easier with other type of drive units, they( ESL) are very difficult to mix with other topologies, personally i prefer the voicing on magnostats, but that is not to say one is superior to the other, i have had good times with both, It's very difficult to put ESL's with anything else due to said voicing and Big ESL's have no issues delivering large scale music, they will need room to do so and really large multiple woofers if you want to add subs.
        A big Tympani system as yours will move a lot of air, maybe more than an U1 in the bass, not necessarily better .
        
        Regards.
        
        Edits: 01/26/16
        
        RE: If you return - Satie 08:09:10 01/27/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: If you return posted by A.Wayne on January 26, 2016 at 12:07:45
        
        The resonance peak is cancelled with multiple drivers in a line array (I use 6 per side where there is a slight residual left from the resonance peak but it does disappear entirely with 8 drivers). The acoustic rolloff on top is 11khz to 14khz depending on horizontal angle.
        
        I presume that bass output couples with additional ESL panels but there is the practicality of space - the big SL panels don't fit into my 7' and change ceilings. I guess I should not be talking about giant footprints since I use Tympanis.
        
        I had good luck with matching bipolar subs to the panels but don't need them any longer.
        
        RE: If you return - E-Stat 05:55:19 01/26/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: If you return posted by Satie on January 25, 2016 at 20:23:02
        
        Can the current U1 do a convincing large scale orchestral piece in full tilt?
        
        You'd have to answer that question yourself. Try listening to a pair driven by something like Siegfrieds or REF750s. If that's not enough, choose one of the two larger models. Since they are full range with controlled directivity, build an even larger array like Ray Kimber did at CES and RMAF for several years running.
        
        ...and with wall loading and bracing can do the 16hz organ note fundamentals not only audibly but loudly.
        
        The rated frequency range is quite similar. Magnepan claims response to 30 hz. Once again, if the standard panels aren't enough, add the subwoofer flavor, the UB-1 with special diaphragms designed for first octave duty.
        
        I am assuming the M3 is not quite there in output capacity.
        
        I was comparing two production speakers of similar investment.
    - RE: They're Alive!!!! - slapshot 18:22:47 01/24/16 (0)
      I think I'd be a little scared with those speakers looking at me.....look like warp drive is around the corner! :)
    - RE: They're Alive!!!! - TitaniumTroy 17:58:06 01/24/16 (3)
      Very impressive looking speaker, I am also really digging those QRD diffusors. Can you tell us anything more about them?
      - I became aware of the Skylines - E-Stat 06:20:31 01/25/16 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: They're Alive!!!! posted by TitaniumTroy on January 24, 2016 at 17:58:06
        
        viewing Mike Lavigne's incredible room . While my bass traps are and effective DIY design, I wanted a professional solution for behind the speakers. Ideally, I should have another pair, but one did help with imaging. Perhaps that can be budgeted for 2016!
        
        Here's a link to the RPG Skylines.
        
        RE: SL ESL's were always serious.... - A.Wayne 08:08:24 01/25/16 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I became aware of the Skylines posted by E-Stat on January 25, 2016 at 06:20:31
        
        Congrats on the upgrade, how far are the speakers from the front wall ? also curious to know if you have ever tried covering your equipment rack Cuddy, just wandering if it would make a difference...
        
        Edits: 01/25/16
        
        RE: SL ESL's were always serious.... - E-Stat 08:20:53 01/25/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: SL ESL's were always serious.... posted by A.Wayne on January 25, 2016 at 08:08:24
        
        Center of panel (they are angled) is about 7.5' out from wall. There's a pic in the gallery that might provide a better perspective.
        
        Covering rack? Given that it is a recessed dormer that doesn't get any direct output from the speakers I haven't worried about it.
RE: Arrived safely! - josh358 08:12:59 01/24/16 (2)
Shippers, (()*#$! They skewered my new QRD diffusors, and now I have to decide whether to take the $50 rebate GIK offered and accept some cosmetic damage or to replace them. But glad it all got straightened out on your end -- sounds exciting!
- Thanks - E-Stat 08:30:58 01/24/16 (1)
  Sorry to hear of your loss as well.
  - RE: Thanks - josh358 08:40:46 01/24/16 (0)
    Thanks, it's no problem since they'll put it right, just a minor pain -- have to take pictures, etc.
Some bad news made up with good news - E-Stat 15:06:46 01/23/16 (6)
Bad news: the Kaki King concert was cancelled due to the weather. We ended up driving about three hours before getting the email and had to turn around.

Good news: I've been able to make progress with wifey's help. I was going to wait for best friend neighbor to help but she insisted.

1. Step 1 - Remove a boat load of screws. Twenty-four in each core and sixteen for each backplate. Take out backplate and disconnect wiring.

2. Step 2 - Move ~100 lb cores to storage room above garage. Carry each one down stairs, then through hallway and kitchen to garage and back upstairs to box storage. Not much fun.

3. Step 3 - Place old cores in their crates which were separate unlike the new ones.

Wifey got a bit tired, so I told her we got plenty done for today! I'll wait for neighbor to move the new ones upstairs and carry giant crate upstairs to storage area.
- RE: Some bad news made up with good news - Cameraman 12:12:44 01/24/16 (5)
  Do you wear plastic gloves while setting up while its hot?
  Thanx Bill
  - Hot as in temp or plugged in? - E-Stat 12:49:12 01/24/16 (4)
    It's certainly not hot now where I live.
    
    I let them power down for two days before disconnecting the backplate, aka power supply, from the the panels. Similarly, the three wires from each new panel are connected to the backplate with it unplugged and "cold". Bias control on each turned all the way down.
    
    Then power them up and set the optimum bias level.
    - RE: Hot as in temp or plugged in? - Cameraman 13:15:33 01/24/16 (3)
      Sorry I meant current wise I have used rubber gloves but I have gotten a jolt before.
      Are you gonna fill the struts?
      Thanx Bill
      
      Edits: 01/24/16
      - RE: Hot as in temp or plugged in? - E-Stat 13:20:59 01/25/16 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Hot as in temp or plugged in? posted by Cameraman on January 24, 2016 at 13:15:33
        
        I learned decades ago with Acoustats to short one of the two primary leads to the center one first to discharge any remaining voltage from the panels. I've never had any trouble following that procedure.
        
        Honestly, I'm not convinced that adding any more mass to the three inch tubular steel frame will improve their performance. The cores alone weigh about that of a Magnepan 20.7. Then add the massive steel frame and the weight of the backplate power supply.
        
        RE: Hot as in temp or plugged in? - Cameraman 13:31:35 01/25/16 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Hot as in temp or plugged in? posted by E-Stat on January 25, 2016 at 13:20:59
        
        I remember on my 1+1 and 2+2 Acoustat made it easy.
        Here we filled up the struts with led shot but were slick enough to use bags so it came out easy. After filled it with spray foam just to tame some ringing made a difference.
        Thanx Bill
        
        Understood - E-Stat 13:39:32 01/25/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Hot as in temp or plugged in? posted by Cameraman on January 25, 2016 at 13:31:35
        
        Having owned both the 1+1 (still have a pair) and 2+2s, I can tell you there is little similarity between those and the U1-PX.
        
        Each steel frame weighs considerably more than an entire 2+2 including the power supply for a total of 270 lbs each.
RE: Arrived safely! - A.Wayne 13:52:43 01/23/16 (0)
New V12 ...... no wait , rats , U1 panels .....:)

Edits: 01/23/16
RE: Arrived safely! - pictureguy 11:08:06 01/23/16 (0)
If in a quiet house at night, you hear a SQUEEK from that lid OPENING,
Run like Hell.

Too much is never enough
what's inside it? nt - Green Lantern 06:15:27 01/23/16 (1)
- RE: what's inside it? nt - E-Stat 06:45:49 01/23/16 (0)
  In Sound Lab parlance, the core is the entire panel assembly that attaches to the frame. Mine are eleven years old using a different stator design. These are the current technology "PX" cores. They actually resemble the panel structure of Acoustats I've used for decades.
  
  I visited the SL production facility several years back and watched Brett put a panel structure together. He uses a jig for each differently sized model and builds the stator grid in a modular fashion.
  
  More recently, I was in Chicago on business in May 2014 and heard Brian's pair in his fabulous new room. I had never heard U-1s play as loudly or as deeply. First octave bass on some recordings ranging from the Interstellar soundtrack to Rihanna's Hard feat can cause the older panels to rattle at high levels.
RE: Arrived safeWhat an amazing crate!! nt - andyr 02:31:36 01/23/16 (0)
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RE: Arrived safely! - Bill the K 19:49:48 01/22/16 (3)
An idea. Those panels of the crate look fantastic. If you put some patches of oil paint on the little triangles, you will have a Chagall like painting. Worth trying.

Good luck
Bill
- The real "artwork" lives inside -nt :) - E-Stat 06:47:28 01/23/16 (2)
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  - RE: The real "artwork" lives inside -nt :) - rosendds@frontiernet.net 10:22:47 01/23/16 (1)
    Very well packed I would say...
    - All 365 lbs worth! -nt - E-Stat 16:06:28 01/23/16 (0)
      .
RE: Arrived safely! - Sondek 11:02:56 01/22/16 (0)
Sound like we're both going to have fun next week. Congrats!

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