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In Reply to: RE: IVA/A21 First Impressions posted by josh358 on October 27, 2015 at 08:56:34
I confess it's been many a year (or decade) since I've heard Tympanis, but I have fond memories of the T-III. With them, the bass panel was centered with the tweeter/midrange on the outside. It seems a bit odd to have the tweeter/midrange panels situated so closely together.
I can't imagine positioning current versions that way for optimum apparent stage width.
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The mid-tweeter panels are definitely too close, but then, my room is too small for Tympanis. I oould put them on the outside, but then I'd have the opposite problem -- the mid-tweeter panels would be too far apart.
I got them though with the intention of using them in the split configuration, with bass panels against the wall and the mid-tweeter panels in front of the low bass panel. That should put the speakers in the right position for a 60 degree stereo spread while leaving enough room to see the 114" projection screen in between. At 18", after all, the single panels aren't much wider than my MMG's, which were 14". So --
....................................................PROJECTION SCREEN
HIGH BASS - LOW BASS
......................MID/TWEETER
Another possibility would be to join the high bass and mid tweeter panels, and then join the two low bass panels together. Active crossover would limit the low bass panels to 100 Hz and they would live in the wide arch at the entrance to my living room. Basically a planar sub.
Meanwhile, I did some more experimenting today, first pushing the bass panels over so they were touching the wall -- a big improvement in image spread and the additional bass level was easy to equalize out. The spread is still a bit narrower than I'd like but this was the best they've sounded so far, and that was wonderful indeed:
Then I tried the split configuration, but it sounded sick at the crossover point so I gave up for now. I may be able to do better when I have DSP and can delay the mid/tweeter to bring it into time with the woofer:
is the way the TIIIs were designed to be placed: bass panels centered next together (who needs bass separation?) with mid/tweeter panels in optimum positions.
I was thinking of trying that today, it's definitely on the list. There are a couple of drawbacks I can think of -- one is that it would tend to trap the backwave, reducing image depth -- and the other is that I'm trying to find a setup that accommodates a projection screen, which this won't do since I don't have enough throw length to use an acoustically transparent screen in front of the speakers.
Another three driver possibilty would be low bass - mid-tweeter - mid bass, with an XO between the low and mid bass panels. That would put the tweeters where I want them and the low bass panels would be against the wall so would be at the center of a virtual six-baffle speaker (12, if you include the floor reflection), partly compensating for the reduction in bass surface area. Power response would be better too. But it would it would interfere with the projection screen.
A modification of that is just to remove the low bass panels, cross them over at 80, and put them together against a wall. So:
WALL -- MIDBASS -- MID-TWEETER................MID-TWEETER - MIDBAS -- WALL
ANOTHER WALL OR SIDE OF ARCH -- LOW BASS -- LOW BASS
I'd lose some bass and midbass SPL capability, but not I think serious in that small a room. The midbass panels could be angled so that dipole are at the first sidewall reflection, reducing lobing and time smear but perhaps exciting more room modes.
...one is that it would tend to trap the backwave
While the T-IIIs I heard years ago were in a fairly large room and away from the front wall, they used the typical "W" pattern for the bass panels to minimize that effect as seen in these diagrams for both the TIII and TIV. I can see how a flat arrangement would do as you suggested.
Clearly, experimentation will yield the optimum arrangement. Good luck!
Thanks, I'll definitely be experimenting!
It's kind of humbling to hear so many major changes with even minor changes in configuration. But I worked it out with my 1-D's and will work it out with these! Doing that is half the fun. :-)
BTW, my understanding of the zig-zag arrangement of the woofers is that it improves power response in the bass panels. And then you swing the tweeter in to keep it on axis and equidistant so the crossovers work correctly.
Interestingly, I didn't have a manual for my 1-D's, which were a year old when I bought them, but after much experimentation ended up with exactly that zig zag arrangement.
The problem with Tympani's is there are too many configurations. The later models take this experimentation option away from you....which is probably a good thing. :)
I farted around with a friend's set of IV's many years ago and ended up with all the panels arranged in a straight line. Sounded excellent.
Good luck.
Dave.
Do you recall whether you had tweeters in or out and whether the entire linear arrangement was angled to any degree of toe in?
The tweeters were inside. No toe-in.
IIRC, an equilateral triangle of about 13' between the listener and the two T/M panels.
It was a good friend of mines system. He ultimately sold them and purchased a pair of Scintillas.
Dave.
: )
Heh, yes. "With great power comes great responsibility." :-)
OTOH, it also makes the Tympanis very versatile. I couldn't fit a 3.6 in my small room with a projection screen in the middle.
Reverse split config
Pull the bass panels up from the front to the plane of your seat and play the mid tweet panels tweeters in and figure out the best placement. Do not connect the bass panels
Then place the bass panels 3' in front of the mid tweet with the deep bass perpendicular to the sidewall just a few inches away from it and the midbass panel inwards and play with the angle of the micbass to match with the mid tweet. The soundstage should "click" together at the right angle. No promise that it will happen but it did work for me with the stock T IV early on when trying my short wall.
Equidistant arc
Take the bass panels to the walls mid room and arrange them into an arc with the mid tweet too - tweeters in, not far from the spread out arrangement you had before just that the mid tweet panels will end up closer to the front wall. The XO is not designed to align the drivers this way so you will have to move the chair around to find the right position (it is not so much a right position as a less wrong one). Tell us what you think.
Reverse split is an interesting possibility, I had the midbass panel on the outside but with this speaker against the wall that shouldn't be necessary or even the best way to do it. I'll have to try it.
Equidistant arc isn't far from what I've tried, I've moved the seat forward and that means pulling the woofers closer in and changing the angle of the tweeter to keep the acoustical centers of the 3 drivers equidistant. The difference would be the direction of the fold between the bass panels -- I followed Magnepan's folding recommendation because it improves power response -- but it's worth trying both ways.
Having the DSP will make this stuff a lot more practical because I'll be able to adjust the relative timing of the drivers.
I think that was done of necessity due to the narrow room and wanting to keep the "official" placement.scheme .
There is probably more room to distance the mid tweets in this orientation by placing the woofers closer to the sidewalls - you don't need that much width of the slot between the bass drivers and the sidewalls to get the sense of depth.
Precisely what I did (partly as a result of your recommendation).
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