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In Reply to: RE: What to do with a single fake ficus tree? posted by Bigjimsguitars on March 25, 2015 at 11:30:10
Jim, here on coffee break and just a couple of minutes to spare, I'd say that experimentation is in order, and will probably be fun. There's a range of possibilities even before personal tastes. My first (personal) experimental step would likely be to center that TV at the plane of the Maggies. The tree then would then go behind the TV. That's just for one test. I may email you later today if something else comes to mind while on a doctor's appointment (I'd be writing be on my small cheap phone by then).
Follow Ups:
I already centered the TV. Will try the ficus behind the TV, can't hurt to try!
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
The difference is real, with the Ficus in the center front wall, the center is more present and defined, just the opposite of what I thought. There is also less false room brightness. Still some room (no pun intended) to make improvements, maybe smaller fake plants on top of the subs which are directly behind the panels for more diffuse. Every little bit helps.
Thanks,
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
with my stats.
What a show-off! :-) Not, that I wouldn't be proud and enjoy having them. One question that comes to mind is how's it possible to move them around, as in finding the best spot for their placement.
The original topic question "What to do with a single fake ficus tree?" always brings a smile to my face, perhaps asking where you could stick it?
(Need I say more?)
One question that comes to mind is how's it possible to move them around, as in finding the best spot for their placement.
The trees or the speakers? :)
Both involve trial and error. With the speakers, it involves toe in angle and distance to wall. I experimented greatly with the latter and measured the results in the bottom three octaves. Their current position which yielded the smoothest response is about a third of the way into the room or about eight and a half feet.
I mean the speakers, of course. Even an old wimp such as myself can move some ficus plants around, particularly if they're fake since there's no water-laden heavy soil in its pot.
My thought is that any attempt in moving those speakers could easily result in hernia repair surgery at my local hospital. Didn't it require the participation of professional movers to get them into your listening room and their present positions as starters? (From your picture, they don't seem to be located atop a wheeled platform of any kind?) Once stationed, I can't envision myself even along with any aid from local help, moving them without a 911 medical emergency call being placed. What do they weigh? The weight of those speakers along with other stuff in a listening room such as a ton of vinyl plus the heavy amplifiers required to drive them might cause an additional call to my home owner's insurance company. Should repair be required, I assume you don't turn them horizontal and replace a few panels, rather a factory rep. comes out to your home. If I could afford buying them in the first place, I should also be able to afford paying for some factory trained techs come out to my home. Let's say in that regard they're not for the 'faint of heart'.
Didn't it require the participation of professional movers to get them into your listening room and their present positions as starters?
Each comes as three pieces which nicely divides the weight: frame, backplate and core. While they weigh about 200 lbs assembled, I can nudge them around pretty easily.
I assume you don't turn them horizontal and replace a few panels, rather a factory rep. comes out to your home.
Unlike other stats like the Acoustats in my garage, there is but a single panel called the core. It can only be factory refurbished. As I don't have the newest PX core, I am contemplating upgrading them this summer. Each arrives in its own coffin sized crate. Removing and replacing a core does indeed require two folks in order to position while screwing them to the frame.
Your system is a thing of beauty!
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
This morning I moved things around and will be getting two more fake plants to finish the diffuse of the front wall. Eager to hear how it sounds. Picture to follow.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Sound impressions later today.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Wait until xmas when you put lights on those xmas trees. Things will really sound great then.
Enjoy
Alan
LOL, Alan you are soooo right! When Christmas comes I get a tree and place it 8ft centered behind me, primarily for the acoustic benefit...of the lights, of course.
Moved the 2.5's 4.5' off the front wall and moved them closer together (14" off the side walls). This made all the difference as the walls are gone. The soundstage is now enveloping with all the resolution that I remembered even at moderate listening levels. The best part is the center stage is deep and perfectly centered. No doubt, I had a funky room node that by trial and error went away.
I'm listening to Wes Bound by Lee Ritenour and couldn't have a bigger smile on my ugly mug😎.
All is left to do is enjoy...just in time as I go back to the 60 hour a week grind tomorrow😤.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Funny, I ran a bit of Lee's stuff last night also. Actually, almost always do. Last night it was a piece in the Rittenour/Grusin album "Amparo". The "Joropo Peligroso" has a good mix of elements but it was the initial bass & grand piano entrance, early on, that I was evaluating with. On my plain Maggies, they are always full, slammy and rich. Now that I am finally adding woofers, I was making sure they did not take away from this experience (they don't; so far, so good).
Oh, you know? The other one of Lee's pieces that I ran for test last night was "Bali Run" in Fourplay's initial album. A couple of years ago, while choosing some common likings in music to evaluate some tweaks, Old Guy 42 reminded me of it. So, I dusted it off then. Last night it pulled 107db peaks, just for a brief test. I took pity on my neighbor, where bass percussion was mostly playing, LOL!
Enjoy!
JBen:
Not only is Rit a great guitarist, a true gentleman. His recordings are always well mastered and full of nice subtleties. Another is Anthony Wilson...heck there are so many out there right now. It's nice to have my system in proper order again!
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
It's nice when something works as desired. The addition of two fake boxwood plants added apparently the right amount of front wall diffuse. Everything is larger, clearer and more focused, the way it used to be in my prior residence. I forgot how good Dvorak's New World Symphony sounded.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Thanks for sharing the experience! How would you characterize the changes so far?
The fake plants have calmed down an overly lively room. I am happy with the results, but wouldn't hesitate in buying larger plants to go behind the planers for even more diffuse (still a hint of glare). What surprised me was how the room became larger sound wise. I can live with this until I find more fake plants/trees😎.
I tried covering the TV, but it really didn't do anything.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Got some sage ideas and advice from JBen. I moved the TV up as much as possible and put up a large un-framed oil painting on the center of the front wall. That could be the final thing needed to tame an unruly room. Everything is pinpoint and with all the detail and dynamics. Magnepans may be fussy, but are worth it in the end.
Thanks for putting up with me😎.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Is you're room conducive to the Limage/HK setup. When it works it is stunning. Do a search for Limage on this site. Something should come up
Alan
Alan:
Just don't have the physical room size to do a limage setup. The good thing is that diffusing the front wall has really improved things to the point where with my eyes closed the room has no walls with a huge soundstage (that I'm used too).
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
I have 3.6's in a 15' x 12' room and use Lamage
Alan
Mine is 8x20'. That said, I'm obviously using the length of the room by have the 2.5's on the short wall. Unfortunately, the room configuration doesn't give me the luxury of moving my seating position too much. The good thing, I'm pretty sure I have found the Fen Shui for the speakers.
I think the room node was the metal wall heater and by moving the speakers more into the room, the reflection spots moved favorably to miss it! I'm sure there are other factors that are unknown to me.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Jim, re your "...to the point where with my eyes closed the room has no walls with a huge soundstage (that I'm used too). " That's what I call "wall-erasing" here.
And as you tweak things further, it may all get better still. Next, your eyes won't need to be closed anymore. Imaging of objects within the soundstage becomes so solid as to "overlay" you vision. Later, that solidity is so extended that you can turn your HEAD to "look" at items on the other side of the wall, without losing much of the perceived placement on the inside sections of the soundstage.
It can be subconsciously unnerving at times -- but mostly it's funny -- to aurally "see" things in my neighbor's apartment. This evening I am listening & evaluating bass stuff. So, it is mandatory to run Patricia Barber's "Companion" album. It has impressive bass routines and outstanding soundstaging. On the latter count, the piece "Touch of Trash" is now doing its usual 3D imaging dog & pony show, while ignoring the walls. Get it if you don'have it. It may help you laugh at the crowd who "think" they have 3D HDTV!
I still remember my first pair of planars, 1.6qr's and I had them setup to the point you could feel the rain falling all around you. The 2.5's were I little bit harder to find their happy spots the first time out.This room has its challenges, I'm very close. There is some room to bring them in and off the side walls, which I will try tomorrow. That said, I'm near field as it is. Funny thing is Magnepan placement can actually be contra, i.e., get a wider image by moving them closer and with less toe-in.
I will know when I get it right, if the room allows for it. So far I have made progress to the end goal, getting that last 1% seems to be elusive.
Maybe a dose of Esperanza Spalding tomorrow.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Edits: 03/26/15
Ay! Esperanza is still in my "to do" list. I'd better get with the program. A brother, a friend, and now you keep reminding me that I am missing out on good stuff. I'll check in Amazon shortly.
Alan,
Thanks I will look it up.
Jim
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Wicked! Enjoy it grandly and remember to keep "chiseling around the edges". One rarely gets the best on the first attempts, which I guess you know anyway. And quite a few other inmates have great ideas to share also.
Hmmm, "putting up with" you? Never thought so. Feel free to check notes anytime. Besides, I am paying it forward...plus atoning for what my wife has to put up with here : - )) (And I'd better go eat dinner before she calls again.)
So I get a call from this girl I met and she tells me that she's at Michaels and they have a 30% off sale on indoor plants. I go and most were $119.00 before the discount. As I walking out I see one for $49! Okay, it's only 5.5' tall, but is nice and leafy. I bought it and, moved the Ficus' behind the panels, the larger one behind the panel that's next to the patio window.
Said room got even larger sounding and deeper as the front wall has completely disappeared image wise. Now I have a huge blank spot on the wall...need to find something absorptive next, or another ficus😆.
ARS VS-110
Customized Bottlehead Foreplay II
Preamp
Magnepan 2.5R's
B&W ASW 300 Subs
Ah Tjoeb Tube CD Player
w/Siemens E288CC's
MaggieMate X/O's from subs to
2.5R's
Expectedly, each and every alteration you make within your listening area i.e., placement of living or fake plants, a TV, etc. will effect the resultant sound. The late Enid Lumley writing an article which appeared in 'The Absolute Sound' claimed that the direction of her kitchen water faucet in an adjoining room changed the sound in her listening area! :-))
When the single ficus was in the middle, you had one condition that sounded promising. When you added the corners, you got an even more promising situation...except that a tendency to project the inverted "U" imaging rears it's ugly head. The Maggies have depth behind them but the middle totally leaves the room. It is manageable, worry not. For now, that's something that may be alleviated by bringing the TV forward, to the plane of the Maggies. It probably is a bit small for the task but this may give you an idea of where to look next. If you got my email yesterday, do to that TV what I mentioned for the other items...damp the rear of the TV with a towel, experimentally. (But don't do the rest of the email, which is not meant for this room config context).
I am leaving the office now but will check again this evening from home.
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