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New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire?

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methylmarty

Hello all,

I am throwing around the idea of changing my side and rear surround speakers, which are all currently Magnepan MMGs (turned sideways, ceiling mounted 1 foot from wall, and angled to the listener with QR tweeters down). I am looking for comparisons of a few speakers from those who may have heard all or some. I have seen reviews for each individually, but never direct comparisons. (I do not think I have the means to hear them in person. If anyone knows any dealers local to NJ, that would help as well.)

1) Magnepan MMG (keep current)
2) Sunfire CRM-2BIP (on-wall)
3) Bohlender Graebener PD-8ci (in-wall)

My reasons for wanting to change are:
1) The room is small, and doubles as a living room. The giant black boxes that stick into the room get tiring to look at after a while.
2) I've always worried about the dispersion patterns of sideways-mounted MMGs, or any planar for that matter.
3) The MMGs are obviously Magnepan's lowest offering which, while still sounding amazing on their own and for what they are, don't quite match the Tympani IVa mains as well as I'd like.

Aesthetics aside, the criteria are clarity, driver coherence, SPL, ability to blend with my LCR, and quite possibly the ability to blend with each other (as my only choice for future Atmos overhead ribbons is the BG PD-8ci; but I really like the way the Sunfires look). Also, my ideal subwoofer crossover point is 60hz, but I can live with 80hz.

My current HT setup is as follows:
Fronts: Magnepan Tympani IVa
Center: Magnepan CC2/DWM (CC2 possibly to be replaced by a MGIIIa ribbon)
Side: Magnepan MMG
Rear: Magnepan MMG
Subs: Jamo C80Sub x2

Thanks in advance for any opinions.

Follow Ups:

RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 10:30:16 01/18/15 (9)
Thought I'd post an update to my quest for surrounds.

I've picked up four KEF CiFDT in-wall motorized dipoles (now discontinued) to play around with, due to scoring a very attractive deal. In all of the internet I have found one mediocre half-review. But it's KEF, and they hide in the wall. Frequency response is 80hz to 20khz, and IIRC the planar crosses to the poly woofer at 150hz.

I am honestly not expecting much compared to my MMG surrounds, but worst case I can use it as a bedroom setup, as my wife is not fond of the prospect of giant monoliths in every room of the house. I dropped them off at my father's house so we can play around with them for a bit this weekend (his system is much more accessible and easy to change than mine, and we share the same love of planar speakers). I will report back with my assessment soon, hopefully.
- RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - Norman M 11:20:04 01/18/15 (8)
  Back in the day when I attended (classical music) concerts, the only times during which I experienced anything like surround sound was after the music stopped and the audience started to applaud. (OTOH during non-classical events there was no telling what an enthused audience member might yell out.) In my 2-CH Tympani IV-A system, the speakers use my room to create the desired ambience sound effect.
  - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 18:06:20 01/18/15 (0)
    Norman,
    
    Totally agree. I spend most of my time with two channel, and the Tympani perform admirably, often producing cues that wrap around the room.
    
    However, I also do the occasional movie, and I thoroughly enjoy what can be done with multichannel music. I sat through the entire new Pink Floyd album in bluray DTS-MA just awestruck by their use of multichannel. Their immersion sets are also very good for this. Realistic presentation? No way, but a damn fun time. I think while listening I decided that the MMGs are irreplaceable as surrounds in my system, at least until I have the cash for that all-20.7 room I'm dreaming about.
    
    I highly recommend the new Pink Floyd album (The Endless River), by the way. It's like the Division Bell (I think the tracks were all from that time), but mostly instrumental with a hint of that psychedelic sound like their first few albums. I think most fans will appreciate it.
  - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 18:03:05 01/18/15 (6)
    Well, you shouldn't hear the hall ambiance as distinct, like a hyped-up gimmick recording. You should hear a sense of acoustical space, a pleasing ambiance, and more natural, laid-back highs. In fact once you're sitting back of the first few rows of the orchestra, most of the sound that you're hearing is coming from reflections (what acousticians call the "far field"). Speakers always seem to me more like a window into the hall than being there!
    - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - Norman M 09:34:58 01/19/15 (5)
      Out of curiosity many times I've connected the output plugs from L/R rear channels from a MC SACD player to the L/R channels of my 2 CH system. I believe you will find they contain anything BUT what you have described. (It's not a defect of that one particular SACD player, because others give similar results.) This type music in the round certainly isn't what I ever heard during any live performances.
      - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 10:05:04 01/19/15 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by Norman M on January 19, 2015 at 09:34:58
        
        What did you hear?
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - Norman M 11:08:55 01/19/15 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by josh358 on January 19, 2015 at 10:05:04
        
        I hear(d) the sound of music, both loud and clear as might be heard from 2CH stereo recordings. I've got nothing against surround sound per se, but as a gimmick rather than a representation of actual live sound heard sitting anywhere in any of the venues in my limited experience. When I pop a stereo CD into the (factory installed) player using the similarly supplied and installed audio system in my car, it also yields a full surround sound result, and ditto for a Sony receiver in my HT room. (In those latter two cases I've always thought it might come to be because Dolby Pro Logic 2 was in use. IAE, and IMO it's as pleasant, or even better, than listening to most MC SACDs.)
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 18:07:06 01/19/15 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by Norman M on January 19, 2015 at 11:08:55
        
        That sounds about right, though. The surround channels are basically the front channels put through a digital reverb. Maybe convolved with an actual hall acoustic if you want to get fancy. You're basically going after an initial delay, which corresponds to the distance of the walls, and then the reverberant tail. Some spectral shaping because high frequencies are attenuated but mostly time domain stuff. Anyway, listened to in isolation, I'd expect it to sound pretty similar to the front channel sound (which also includes natural or artificial reverberation). After all, it's most of what you hear from most seats in a concert hall.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 19:55:29 01/21/15 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by josh358 on January 19, 2015 at 18:07:06
        
        Josh,
        
        My collection is by no means definitive of what an SACD should be. However, in most of my classical and jazz SACDs, there is no multichannel at all, just increased bitrates and such. The reverb/delay effects you and Norman describe are in my experience almost always added by processing (e.g.: Dolby PLX2 Music). As far as I'm concerned, guys like us have the room ambiance covered by our wonderful planars, which when set up properly envelop us and take us acoustically to the venue, or the venue to us.
        
        On the other hand, listen to a Pink Floyd SACD or BluRay audio, any one of them will do, and you will hear full-range instrumentation and sound effects from all channels. This is used to great effect, IMHO, but is not in any way accurately recreating music. Totally captures that psychedelic vibe of their early works though.
        
        I still need to pick up the new Dream Theater album on SACD to hear what uses they have devised for multichannel.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 07:54:49 01/22/15 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by methylmarty on January 21, 2015 at 19:55:29
        
        Spectacular as it is, what I hear through planars reminds me of listening to a concert through a picture window. The sense of envelopment I get in a concert hall is missing. It can be added back in a multichannel setup with artificial reverb that emulates a concert hall's acoustical signature, but that's impractical to do at home, since you'd have to tune it by ear for each recording. And a matrix decoder like Dolby's, no matter how sophisticated, isn't going to provide optimal results.
        
        You can try to do it passively with your listening room. You want to create a "reflection-free zone" (RFZ) at your listening seat -- it's not really reflection free but it's free of the early reflections that would mask the early reflections from a much larger concert hall. But that's hard to do at home. So we try to pull the speakers out and use diffusion to achieve some of the same effect.
        
        Then you want to use lots of diffusion to create a nice reverberant tail from the other room surfaces. Again, that's hard to do if you don't have a dedicated theater or listening room, or a blind wife. And even if you do, it's going to be a one-size solution. The acoustics of a jazz club, a concert hall, and a cathedral are radically different, and in movies, you have the outdoors to deal with as well! So you really need some electronic assistance here.
        
        Which in a nutshell is why I favor discrete multichannel recordings. But I think there's a chicken-and-egg problem: Few people have surround systems so surround recordings don't sell very well, and since there aren't many surround recordings, people don't buy surround systems. Also, I think the fact that most people buy pop recordings hurts the prospects of surround because (the occasional psychedelic effect notwithstanding) you really don't need or even particularly want surround for studio pop.
        
        One solution would just be to include an acoustical model of the hall with the recording. Then the user's processor could handle the reverb for whatever speaker setup and acoustics he has. I'm not aware of any movement in that direction, but then, I haven't had time to keep up with it!
RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - Satie 10:53:33 01/10/15 (2)
Since you want to keep your tonal balance allocation to the surrounds, AND you want to have something that is compatible with the ribbon tweeters on your mains, And you don't have room for stuff jutting off your walls, then that leaves only a BG model.

The one you picked out will match the ribbon for detail up to 8 khz or so which should do fine for both music and HT.

The 8" mid/woofer would not be as fast as the TIVA mid and midbass but BG have been rather successful in matching cones with planars for decades, so I would be more comfortable using cones sourced from them then from other makers. The freq coverage and dynamic capacity of the BG should match the MMGs hanging off your ceiling.

That said, I have not heard this particular model and have not heard the competition.
- RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 12:06:35 01/10/15 (1)
  Satie,
  
  I was hoping you'd chime in on this. When you say the BG ribbon will match up to 8khz, Do you think it will match the Tympani ribbon better than the current MMG does? What do you suppose it would do above 8khz versus what the MMG does?
  
  Also, the BG ribbons are rated to 20khz, while the Sunfires I mentioned are rated to 40khz; how is this possible, or do you suppose it is just bloated specs as with other Sunfire specs? (Don't take that last comment as a knock on Bob Carver or Sunfire. I am a huge Bob Carver fan, my first serious receiver being an MXR130 and currently using Sunfire Sigs all around for HT. I just know that while most companies somewhat exaggerate specs, certain companies' specs tend to be... overly optimistic. lol)
  - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - Satie 14:06:00 01/10/15 (0)
    The Neo8, which has the same diaphragm as the BG in wall's Neo3 PDR can be interchanged with the ribbon without a substantial difference in sound anywhere from 4khz to 10khz. Beyond that the ribbon is clearly more resolving and below that the ribbon tweeter is a bit out of its depth and turns nasty at high volume.
    
    In my current low phase midrange setup the upper XO is at appx. 11Khz so that the ribbon does only top octave duties. Because of the lack of phase up to that point (and the transient critical 250hz-6khz) it sounds better than letting the ribbon operate to <6khz with 1st order slopes as I had it before.
    
    The Neo3 PDR rolls over at 20khz because of its width being wide for a tweeter, not because it is "slow". It is more resolving than anything other than a true ribbon or electrostat, and possibly plasma tweeters. It should be on par with the better Be tweeters and better than some. So I expect it would outdo whatever Carver chose for the tweeter in his design.
RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 18:24:55 01/09/15 (15)
20.7's. :-)

Seriously, I empathize too. I don't know of a good solution to this. You just aren't going to find something that matches the ribbon highs except another ribbon. And lower down, ditto, you're going to need a planar. And then you're back to big. I can't imagine the BG's, with their cone woofer, would blend, either.

Are you using the surrounds for music or just for film? In the latter case, I think the requirements are significantly relaxed.

Have you considered the MMC-2? It really is designed for this kind of application. It even hides when out of use. The quasi-ribbon tweeter doesn't match the purity of true ribbon highs but it would be a step up from the MMG's, and it's better suited to use on a wall than the floor standers, since the resonances are tuned for it.

Another possibility, if you have time for some elbow grease, would be to cobble something together out of the Mini Maggie satellites and cone dipole woofers. Lots of work, though, and you'd lose that planar midbass. Or you could add true ribbons to the on-walls -- again, a lot of work.
- RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 18:53:27 01/09/15 (14)
  Josh,
  
  Did you see the recent post on here of the guy with like 8 20.7s and a CCR all bi- or tri-amped with Emotiva monoblocks? Yeah, I could live with that.
  
  I did want the MMC2s, but they were a little out of my price range and don't go below 100hz. Otherwise, they are ideal.
  - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 19:02:36 01/09/15 (12)
    LOL, yeah, I wouldn't mind that setup either!
    
    Why do the surrounds have to go below 100 Hz? In a typical room, sound is pretty non-directional below 80 or 100 Hz. You could just set them to "small" and use the Tympani woofers up front. That would get more clean level out of our MMG's as well.
    - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 21:08:39 01/09/15 (11)
      Josh,
      
      You are probably right, and I admittedly don't know how much bass is routed to surrounds. I would have to say that it is more important for multichannel music than for movies.
      
      I was adamant on this setup because for me bass levels are localizable down to just above 60hz. Although now that I think about it, this could be due to my room or perhaps even second order harmonics from the subs or something. Either way, I am wary of a "disembodiment of sounds", or whatever would better describe it.
      
      I've been meaning to try the "large" front method. However, my subs are run off the processor's LFE channel, and I do not like the way the mains and subs blend when set on large. So I would first have to run the mains off the high-pass filters in the subs, and I have my doubts that this won't color the sound in some way.
      - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 06:32:44 01/10/15 (10)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by methylmarty on January 09, 2015 at 21:08:39
        
        I'm guessing not just second harmonic from the subs, but the fact that even a 24 dB/octave crossover allows significant higher frequency energy through. That's based mostly on studies that find that people can't localize sound below 80-100 Hz in listening rooms. Of course, it's always possible that you or our room and setup are outliers . . .
        
        Anyway, I see your problem. Wouldn't the sub's crossover do less violence to the sound than the subs themselves? I'd want to cross the subs over as low as possible to get the extension and SPL I was after without too much smearing.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 11:11:13 01/10/15 (9)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by josh358 on January 10, 2015 at 06:32:44
        
        Josh,
        
        You have an excellent point, as usual. Damnit, now I have to try this. After I verify the crossover slopes of the processor and subwoofer, of course. And then I will need new interconnects to match the Morrows I use on the main channels... This may take a while.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 18:36:57 01/10/15 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by methylmarty on January 10, 2015 at 11:11:13
        
        Maybe just try it with whatever cable you have lying around first? I think the difference will be obvious pro or con, and then if you like the results you can get the new ones.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 10:14:06 01/11/15 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by josh358 on January 10, 2015 at 18:36:57
        
        I guess I could do that, although the best cable I have lying around is some Emotiva ICs that I bought while testing the XPA-2 (which ultimately could not drive my Tympani). I'll have to reconfigure though as they are too short for my setup. This may take a while.
        
        I just remembered that I did try something similar once: Between my failed MGII/CC2 attempt and my acquisition of a DWM, I ran the processor's center output through the line-level inputs on the subs and used the subs' crossovers to cover below 160hz where the CC2 rolls off. It sounded... really bad. But I don;t thin it effected the CC2. (The DWM combined with a Maggie center is magical, by the way.)
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 17:23:52 01/16/15 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by methylmarty on January 11, 2015 at 10:14:06
        
        What happened with your XPA-2 and your Tympanis? I was going to use mine for bass duty, and temporarily full range (since I don't want to deal with bi amping until I have a better idea of how I'm going to position the speakers).
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 18:45:29 01/16/15 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by josh358 on January 16, 2015 at 17:23:52
        
        Josh,
        
        I'm not sure what exactly happened with my XPA2 on the Tympani. It was over two years ago, but from what I remember the amp would just cut out completely during dynamic transients in classical music and seemingly randomly in all the other over-compressed nonsense I listen to. I believe it went into a protection mode. I couldn't even get it close to reference level.
        
        I called Emotiva and talked to the main guy (can't remember his name at the moment) and it seemed that he wasn't surprised that the amp was having problems with the tympani. After discussing possibilities for a while, like a jackass I just packed it up and sent it back instead of investigating further. As I saw it, I was only interested in driving the Tympani and didn't even think of testing it on one of the 20 other pairs of speakers I have sitting around.
        
        Possibilities as I see it are as follows:
        1) The particular amp may just have been a defective unit.
        2) I found the midrange fuses on the TIVas to be blown. I'm not sure if this was a cause or effect.
        3) This was prior to my installing two dedicated 20a lines. I was previously running the XPA2 on a 15a shared line. However, nothing else (including my dual 1800w subs) has this problem on that line.
        
        Anyway, I now use a Sunfire Signature 600 to drive them and ultimately like the sound better. The Emotiva, while it worked, had a more "forward" and grainy quality to the sound which induced listening fatigue quickly. The Sunfire on voltage source has all the punch but with a smoother overall presentation. The Sunfire on current source sounded close to the more laid back B&K sound that I had been used to.
        
        Now if I had the funds, I might biamp with XPA1 gen2s on the bass and a Pass Labs x250 for the top end. I assume by your post that you agree with my assessment that Emotivas belong on the bass only if possible.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 17:56:59 01/17/15 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by methylmarty on January 16, 2015 at 18:45:29
        
        Well, the Emotiva sounded good on my MMG's, but I heard that grain too, which is why I thought I'd put them to work on the Tympani bass where it wouldn't be audible. But really, if I were buying a bass amp from scratch, I'd go with Class D. Class D is ideal for bass, since as with using the Emotiva there you don't hear the high frequency problems.
        
        Of course if my XPA-2 acts like yours with the Tympanis, I'll probably just sell it . . .
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 09:20:39 01/18/15 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by josh358 on January 17, 2015 at 17:56:59
        
        I do want to clarify that no one should take my experience as declaring the XPA2 or any Emotiva product bad-sounding. I believe they sound very good, especially for the price; that being said in this hobby one often gets what one pays for (beyond that of course is a steep slope of diminishing returns and products based more on aesthetic than performance). In other words, it's no Pass/Krell/Bryston beater.
        
        I have actually been interested in the B&O ICE amps for bass duty for a while now. Having not actually heard them, I base my curiosity on their utilization in the bass sections of the highly regarded Legacy Audio line. I understand they work around some of the limitations of class D.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 09:37:25 01/18/15 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by methylmarty on January 18, 2015 at 09:20:39
        
        Agree completely about the XPA-2. It's a good sounding amp and amazing for the money -- if it hadn't been, I would have sent it back. But that subtle, fine upper midrange graininess/bipolar sound bothers me. I guess it's a case of having tasted the Kool Aid . . . I'd be happy to live with and recommend the Emotiva but once you've lived with liquid mids and highs you're always going to want it. And I imagine it would be even more apparent with the true ribbon than it was with my MMG's.
        
        Well if I could try any single amp at this point it would probably be the Magtech but last I checked they were kind of pricey and ultimately I'm planning to tri amp, so Class D bass plus two smaller, more liquid amps makes sense.
        
        Have you considered a Class D pro amp for the bass? That's what Satie did. Really, any reasonable Class D amp is going to sound great on bass duty, since the Class D problems occur at higher frequencies. So you don't need something super refined if you aren't running full range. Not that an ICEpower amp wouldn't be a good choice.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 10:20:49 01/18/15 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by josh358 on January 18, 2015 at 09:37:25
        
        I have a few Crown and Hafler pro amps in my studio that I could test out. Problem right now is with the rest of the gear - crossovers and such. I have an XO-1, but eh... not a true crossover, I'd rather do it right. Besides, the only amp I have for the top end is my Sunfire. I guess I'm just too lazy and/or broke to play with biamping right now. But I will, eventually.
        
        RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - josh358 10:46:55 01/18/15 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? posted by methylmarty on January 18, 2015 at 10:20:49
        
        Yeah, the crossover is a problem. I'm also a big believer in bass EQ, you can only do so much with position and trapping, even with dipoles. Actually you can get good digital xover/EQ really cheaply, the problem is the quality of the DAC's . . .
  - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 18:55:46 01/09/15 (0)
    Speaking of motorized in-walls, has anyone heard or know anything about the KEF CiFDT? They say it is a dipole, and as thin as it is I couldn't imagine anything but a planar driver. But I can't find anything confirming the driver type, not even the KEF website.
Although I offer no solution you might be happy with, I empathize. - grantv 14:05:12 01/09/15 (2)
I have 3.6's up front with MMGW's x 4 for side and rear surrounds. They are not ideal perhaps, but I am 2CH only for music, and rarely watch a movie TBH. If it were me I'd scrap the surrounds and run 2CH only for music and movies. Still a very impressive system. My room is dedicated, so my MMGW's are staying, but I will say they don't impress me for surrounds, just not enough anything to keep up.
- RE: Although I offer no solution you might be happy with, I empathize. - methylmarty 18:03:55 01/09/15 (1)
  Grant,
  
  I had considered the MMGWs a while back because the size is closer to ideal (this was before the Minis were around) but I became disinterested when I saw the specs. To be honest I never heard them, but on paper there were not enough lows or highs... So I looked at the MGMC1s which were (again, on paper) fine on the highs but didn't go low enough for me to cross at 60hz. I always loved the sound and range of my SMGbs, so I figured why not hack up some MMGs as they are basically thinner and more refined versions of that.
  
  I am about 80% 2 channel music and 10% movies, which leaves the final 10% for SACD and DVD-A multichannel music, and for that more than for movies is why I wanted the frequency range. Reading your comments on the MMGWs just reassures me that I made the right choice skipping over the MMGWs as your opinion is highly regarded in the audio community.
  
  As a disclaimer, I do understand the application and the merit of the MMGW, as it would probably blow away the sound quality of 99% of consumers' systems for an affordable price. But we here are like the 1% of the audio world, and are perhaps a bit off the deep end.
  - Good thing I'm quite a swimmer - grantv 20:33:46 01/11/15 (0)
    As I'm quite a bit more than a little off the deep end. :)
    Thanks for the reply, the W's do what they need in the right application.
This is what I did in a 7.4 set-up... - Mark Man 09:58:34 01/09/15 (1)
Hey Marty

1.6's were LF/RT mains

A pair of MMGS as a center Channel, hung for the ceiling vertically above the TV and aimed at the listening position...(tried them Horizontal, one above and one below the TV, did not like the dispersion characteristics)

A pair of MMGS as sides, at my ears, perpendicular to the side walls, sitting on top of a pair of subs, set up to be vertical...

A pair of 1.4's as rears, hung them from the ceiling horizontally skewed towards the listening position...(this set-up, the sound would "jump" up when it hit the rears) Then tried hanging them vertically, this was better but it did mess with my living room layout...The best was the on the floor pushed into the corners...this messed with one of the entries into the living room, but acceptable...

Now all that being said, as you know, there is no hiding a Maggie...my $.02 is a side wall vertical mounting on a hinge that can be pushed towards the wall if required...tweeters in towards the listener and Bass section next to the wall for coupling...

Your IVa's having true ribbons will never truly blend with the QR models, close, but no cigar...the CCR's have true ribbons, along with the Mini's as you have mentioned, but do not know how they would work in your application or go deep enough for you, without the DWM's or some other type of bass augmentation, aka subs...

My current set-up is just a 2-channel rig with 3.7's...great for music and good for movies...they never cease to impress me with how well they throw sound around the room...

Hope things work out for you...
Good Luck
Mark
- RE: This is what I did in a 7.4 set-up... - methylmarty 11:15:47 01/09/15 (0)
  Mark,
  
  Your trials seem similar to several past iterations of my setup. I'm glad to see that someone got the dual MMG center to work. You can check out a picture of the front of my rig in my other thread (I think it was called "Tympani IVa alternate placement") to see why it didn't work for me... low ceilings and a big TV mostly. Of course I ended up where I am now as the best compromise, but I just don't really want to see planars all over the living room as I am renovating it to look more classy and simplistic. Which is why I am looking for on/in-walls, although of course my choices are limited as I am too big a ribbon/planar fan to give them up.
RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 08:19:36 01/09/15 (4)
Just an aside:

I did consider Mini Maggies, as they would most likely be the best sonic match to my Tympani. However, this would lead to one of two things, both of which I am trying to avoid for aesthetic and budgetary purposes:

1) I would need to have a third center location for each DWM, meaning two more giant black squares hanging from the ceiling, just more centered and obvious.
2) I would need a DWM on each channel, again meaning giant black squares everywhere and an extra $1800 in addition to however more the minis cost over my other options.

When I build my dedicated theater room I can do silly things like this, but as I am about to renovate my living room I think I would like to streamline and get it right the first time.
- RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 11:31:31 01/09/15 (1)
  I should probably also add that being this is the living room in my house it has several odd openings to other rooms which are simply not conducive to planars on the floor in any configuration. If the MMGs are my best option, they will stay on the ceiling where they are, and that is my only option to continue living with Maggies as I can't justify Minis making it even more crowded to the DWMs.
  
  So my choices are basically narrowed to the on/in-wall offerings from BG and Sunfire, else I will make no changes.
  
  So has anyone heard the BGs or Sunfires? Or if not those particular models, any similar models from those brands?
  - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 11:35:37 01/09/15 (0)
    By the way, in the layout I provided the Tympani are way closer to the wall than they really are; in my current setup the bass panels are 3' from the back wall and the twt/mid panels are 18" in front of that. Also, the subwoofers are really 18" from the back wall (they have dual-opposed drivers facing front and back). Everything else in the drawing is to scale. The gridlines represent square feet.
- RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - russ69 09:41:00 01/09/15 (1)
  The problem with Magnepans is that they need to be located far from the front wall/side wall/back wall that makes it difficult to integrate with a HT set-up. It's a difficult task. I'm not sure of a solution but minis seem like a easier to integrate solution.
  - RE: New side and rear surrounds - Magnepan, BG, Sunfire? - methylmarty 11:05:07 01/09/15 (0)
    Russ,
    
    Yes, this has always been a problem as I live in a moderately sized house. The only place large enough at the moment is the master bedroom, and while my wife tolerates the living room she will not agree to more than two channel in the bedroom. Eventually I am building out from my weight room to make a 20'x20-something' sized theater, but until then...

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