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In Reply to: RE: LOL. !!!! posted by unclestu on December 15, 2014 at 23:19:04
Hey, I would of loved to try this myself but don't have 2 big maggies to play with.
So I am going on vicariously and trying to guess which way to go so Swami gets better performance. Part of that is speculating on the causes of what he observed in the context of what he did. Hopefully what I am doing is helping.
If it sounds like gibberish it is probably because most of it will eventually prove to be just that.
Follow Ups:
It is fun playing around with the combos of two sets of speakers.
Tried the 3a's alone for the first time in months. I was amazed at how much better the new models were in dynamics. I only noticed it after living with the better speaker for so long. Even with DWMs (or without) the 3a simply cannot manage the dynamic realism of the 3.7i. It is like there is a pillow over the speaker bluring micro dynamics and transient attack.
Latest two set experiment was to try the T setup. What I did was move the side firing speakers up 8 inches or so and put them in a pure Rooze set up (panels exactly side on to listening position so I can only hear reflections). This got the woofers roughly aligned as Satie suggested (I think)
The effect of the second pair is real subtle now. Slightly tilts up highest treble and adds air and three dimensionally to the instruments and vocals. Also still stretches the soundstage wider. It adds power much more so than volume. Indeed I repeatedly forgot if I had the ambience speakers on or off.
So far I prefer the 3.7i alone the best (8 feet from FW (40%),15 inches from SW toed in almost to listening position -- kind of a modified Limage)
Close second is the 3.7i with the 3a as ambience speakers as above.
Third place would be the 3a with DWM and fourth would be the 3a alone.
Each has strengths and weaknesses though. For example the lower bass on the 3a is killer.
Still playing. I really want to experiment with the two sets of speakers before moving my old ones upstairs.
Works with smaller 'pans too, or even mismatched models. Originally tried as a replacement for tymps. To add to options try removing tweeter fuse
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Very good to know. I was wondering if that T setup would create more problems than it solves. Can you post a pic of the setup so we can see the geometry in the context of the room?
Have you tried the tweeter to tweeter positioning? Flipping the side speaker to tweeter closer to the listener on the outside (not a T setup.
Thanks
Last night I moved the extra speakers out of the room and went back to the 3.7i alone set up in the position which I have found optimal out of hundreds of experiments (see above)
I immediately felt something was missing. The single Maggies seemed strained in comparison. Images seemed more two dimensional and thinner. The stage was deep, but the furthest back images were kind of painted on the wall. Subtle instruments seemed buried in the mix and hard panned stereo seemed to come out of the speakers. I could play them plenty loud, but I had to play them much louder to get the same power (if this makes sense).
I then brought the second pair back in, this time bringing them further up (9 feet) and closer in to get the side firing speakers further from the wall. I have up on the T and went back to the L.
The best way to describe (via exaggeration) the difference is imagine going from a mini Maggie to the large Sound Labs. From a mini monitor to the largest Wilson or Focals. There is substantially more power and weight and dimensionality to the instruments and singers. More presence. This is especially prominent on the sounds coming from the edges of the stage (which are produced almost exclusively by one speaker in a conventional set up).
There is no boxiness at all. Absolutely none. Just more weight. More realism. Less transparency (less ephemeral quality) of imaging. It is kind of startling.
No it is not perfect. No I am not sure I will keep it. No I haven't perfected everything yet (I've tried less than a half dozen positions and I am still using 25 feet of thin lamp cord to connect the second pair). No I don't want to give up my second audio room.
On the other hand. I strongly recommend everyone who can try this do so.
The funny thing is that my very first audio speakers were stacked Advents. Thirty Five years later I am listening to stacked Maggies.
Here is a photo of the most recent set up.
Two more sets and you can make a box...
So the benefit of the T setup before was simply moving the wing speaker's tweeters away from the sidewalls?
Thanks so much for posting these experiments.
It is obvious that you can have one listening room that you want to listen in, or two that leave you wanting and reminiscing about the setup that was...
Perhaps a different flavor speaker for the other room? Classic Klipsch of some type?
PS. Christmas ficus is fun.
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