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In Reply to: RE: Just got a Laser Distance Meter posted by Barry on November 28, 2014 at 20:56:46
Thanks for posting Barry. Based on your experiences, I'm interested in getting a laser distance meter - but I'm curious about one point.
Sure, you can get the speakers to within 1mm distance of each other - this is from the face of the laser, right? But how did you place the face of the laser, relative to the position of your ears when you are sitting in your seat? (Because we are interested in making the distance from speakers to ears the same.)
Thanks,
Andy
Follow Ups:
Hi Andy. Everything as you've guessed is measured from the listening position at ear height and also somewhat iterative with steps as will follow below.LDM CAPABILITIES
For best results the LDM you buy MUST have a tripod mount (many don't). Much more accurate as it is not only perfectly steady, but you can swivel it once it's set up in the listening position and know that you're taking readings from the exact same spot once you've established it. I used a camera tripod as the threading is the same as the LDM.It helps if it has a "continuous operating" mode. That leaves the laser permanently on so you can keep moving the speaker then go back and read the meter without having to keep pushing buttons. It also allows you to find the shortest distance to the wall as you get continuous readings as you swivel the tripod (know you're perpendicular).
The meter I bought takes readings either from the front, back of the unit or the tripod threaded position on the meter. Probably doesn't matter unless you want to know exactly what that distance is. This LDM also has a horizontal leveling meter that I didn't feel the need to use with the tripod.
SET UP & MEASURING
1) Use the LDM to set both L and R speakers the same exact distance to the side walls as a starting point holding the back of the LDM on the wall and measuring to the speaker outside trim edge moving the speakers as needed.2)Use the LDM to measure the width of the room the same way which for me was 162.82 in. Divide by 2 for the centered room seating listening position.
3) MOUNT the LDM on a tripod placed at your current listening position. Adjust it to EAR HEIGHT based on the chair you sit in which, for me, was about 41". Aim the LDM at either side wall to find the half way distance of the listening seat position (81.41in for me), measuring and moving the tripod as you go. Once you've got the halfway point for the sidewalls; swivel it around to the rear wall and do the same thing. I'm 94.5 in of the back wall. Recheck the side wall distance easily by swiveling the tripod.
4) Swivel around and point at the speakers once you've got the tripod in the exact listening position. Measure the distance to inside and outside side rail of each speaker if they are slightly angled in. Move just one speaker to match the other unless you need the exercise. Recheck and reset sidewall distance for the speaker as it'll change. You're done.
OBSERVATIONS
The LDM I bought measures to within 3 decimal places and is accurate to within .04 inches so I didn't try to match more accurately than that. Readings are pretty stable and repeatable but these things are very sensitive.
Measuring speaker location from the listening position rather than the front wall is better as your room is probably not square to the nearest inch or so which could throw everything off. My tape measure approach was off about 1/4 in. Visually, to me, it looked like the right speaker was closer to the listening position, but in fact it was the left speaker that was closer (Must be cross-eyed). You will also notice that the floor is not level either. Mine was off a 1/8in. I suppose I could have raised the one speaker; maybe later.
I did get even better results by using my separate digital level and adjusting each speaker (Mye stands) to be perfectly 90 degrees perpendicular to the floor.
I think you'll be really pleased with the results. Interestingly, it's not just the air and imaging that comes into focus, but the bass sounds more solid as the speakers are more closely coupled. The effort is not all that great. It's pretty amazing to me that such small distances make an audible difference.
Edits: 11/29/14 11/29/14 11/29/14
For reference only:
AMERICAN camera tripod threading is 1/4-20
Too much is never enough
Hi Barry,
Being on 3 weeks summer holidays has given me the opportunity to have a play with the new laser measuring device. Having found my camera tripod, I mounted the Bosch GLM80 ... and discovered my first problem! :-((
I tried to set up the tripod so that when I panned from one speaker to the other, the laser spot would remain at the same height on each baffle (just above the tweeter). (I'm trying it out first on some box speakers I have, before "getting serious" with my Maggies. ;-))
How did you get the plate on the top of your tripod ... horizontal - so that the laser device bolted to it, pans horizontally? I fiddled around several times but could not achieve a horizontal pan! :-((
Thanks,
Andy
Can you now explain what you did to get the (braced) panels to be perfectly 90 degrees perpendicular to the floor?
Thanks,
Andy
My 3.6s are on Mye stands so there are threaded pointed inserts in each corner of the base of each speaker that you can use for leveling. Either by screwing each insert in (lowering) or out (raising) front to back or side to side changing the tilt in any direction. It's a bit "fiddly".My digital level (NOT Laser as referenced in previous post. It's separate from the LDM) reads to 90.00 so you can literally change the tilt in hundreds of a degree. This was a small but just noticeable change and I did this before I bought the LDM.
I also have sub-woofer towers with 5 x 10" drivers per side that flank the sides of the 3.6s crossed over at 66Hz. I haven't done anything with fine tuning positioning these yet but, based on moving them around so far, they're not so sensitive to small changes in placement. Interestingly the Genesis 1.2 owners manual suggests NOT setting up subs parallel same distance to the walls symmetrically to avoid exciting the same room modes.
When you're done with this, go build an addition on to your house as you'll have all the tools you need! hope this helps.
Edits: 11/29/14
That sounds like a good device to have as well - can you tell me what you have?Still interested to understand how this "verticality meter" actually works? Shure you can match the line which it might produce with the (vertical) line of the panels ... but how do you know the vertical line is at 90 deg? And what make/model is it?
And re. " go build an addition on to your house as you'll have all the tools you need " ... I have already designed the "music room" in our new house and we have just started demolition of the previous structure - so "building" will follow shortly. :-)) I want to get these tools:
* firstly, to get my own speakers aligned properly, when the place is built but
* also, to set up a 'retirement job' setting people's speakers up for them.
Regards,Andy
Edits: 11/30/14
Andy: I'm not sure these are readily available any more and the instructions for calibration are not that great. It was a little over $100 USD. There appear to be several other options these days and you don't need to get one with a laser.
I really like the Lieca Disto 7400X - it was about $250 USD. There were cheaper models, but they didn't have a tripod mount. Bosch is another option.
Good luck with homebuilding and best wishes for a happy and healthy retirement! I threw in the towel this past July.
Regards, Barry
a Bosch GLM80 plus a "level cage" which turns it into a spirit level. :-))
Your model Disto is not sold in Oz - the equivalent is (according to the guy I spoke to) a Disto X310. This is a robust unit with a waterproof cover so, given I will only use it inside, I went for the cheaper GLM80 as it:
* also has a tripod mount, and
* tells you what angle it's inclined at - ie. knows when it is horizontal (for measuring) or vertical (for making sure the panels are vertical).
GLM80 was A$260 (USD220) vs. A$417 for the Disto X350 - so nearly 40% less.
So, many thanks for your information. :-))
Andy
Just stay out of the water..... : )
Edits: 12/01/14
Wow! That is amaaazing ! :-)) Perfect location but why oh why hold it in our winter? :-((
Alas, I am in Melbourne, so it's not a simple logistics exercise to get up to the Emerald City. :-))
And re. staying out of the water ... a year or 2 ago, a Special Forces group was doing a training dive at night, in Sydney Harbour and one poor guy got severely bitten by a large shark. Lost most of one arm, at least.
Regards,
Andy
Rat Shack sells a good pocket size digital meter.
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