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In Reply to: RE: Did you give up on subwoofers for Quad ESL-63s? posted by George S. Roland on November 20, 2014 at 09:46:24
The Gradient was OK for its day, just OK. There were better systems available even then. But it physically mated well with the Quad, was pretty much plug-and-play, did improve things in some ways and was relatively affordable compared to better options. It did sully to some extent the qualities that attract people to the Quad in the first place.
In the here-and-now there are significantly better woofer systems available. If implemented correctly they can indeed extend the bottom end, provide improved system dynamics and not screw up the Quad.
I won't give any specific recommendations for woofers there are many good systems available depending on one's budget. Even budget units can be quite impressive. The key is to blend them in as low as possible, 40Hz or so in most cases, and let the Quad run full range, no crossover filter on the Quad. Two subs will produce the best results even at a low crossover point.
Follow Ups:
Kent:
I get pretty good results with a Dahlquist LP1 electronic crossover set about 60hz, running my 63's through the LP 1.
While I do hear a very slight difference between through the crossover and full range, I seem to have significantly more dynamic range using the crossover as it is intended.
Right now I am using a pair of homebuilt subs that sound pretty good to me, although they do not go much deeper than about 25hz, they add the warmth and spatial information that comes with deeper bass than the Quads will do.
As you probably know, the LP1 is passive (one cap) on top and active only on the bottom.
Do you think the LP1 might be good enough to run this way, or am I just fooling myself?
Thanks
The LP-1 is a nice crossover. It does not have the controls on the low pass like some modern designs but this is not a huge deal if one is willing to fiddle with placement. Modern digital crossovers are pretty cheap these days so it does not have to break the bank to experiment with one as a low pass filter. For the high pass a series cap is the way to go.
Even a simple series cap will degrade performance to a degree, not much, but the benefit of greater system dynamics will be worth the trade-off for some. Others may want greater midrange purity. No right answer here more a matter of taste.
Thanks for your time, Kent,
I have tried the ubiquitous Behringer "digital" crossover and found it fine running the top end full range...the Behringer does awful things to the top end signal.
Unfortunately, the Behringer lasted about six months before it developed a problem that caused it to shut off on its own.
The LP 1 is putting along after 30 or so years.
For me the only drawback of the LP 1 is that the crossover point for the top end of the system is fixed by either a cap or resistor or a combination based on the input impedance of the top end amp.
Which means that to put my tube amps into the system periodically I have to change a cap...or ignore the crossover point.
You are right about the effect of that series cap. All the caps in mine have been upgraded to Kimber Kaps. This small change made the impact of running the top end through the LP 1, as I said, almost imperceptible.
And a matter of taste. Some days I run the Quads full range, some days through the LP 1, not really sure which I prefer...yet.
Thanks, Kent.
I suspect that, by now, you have probably heard and/or worked on 988s, 989s, 2805s and 2905s.
Which one is your current favorite and, related to my inquiry, do you regularly use a sub?
I get bitten by the sub question now and then, but the ESL-63s I have are so clean sounding, I probably ought to be grateful for them and stop succumbing to change-itis.
George
Overall I find the bass of the 63 to be satisfying but at times I could want for more. If I used the 63 exclusively I would want good subs.
I don't use subs for a couple reasons. I have to listen to every speaker I service and I don't want to get keyed in on a sound that is using subs. When I want more extension and slam in the bottom octaves I listen to my SoundLabs.
The 63 and its derivatives sound more a like than not. I own a pair of 989 and 2905. Don't think I much care for the additional bass panels. The extra panels do add some energy in the bottom but seems to muddy up the midrange a bit. I like the additional rigidity and mass that the 2905 frame offers. My 2905 are modified turning off the additional bass panels and I have removed all the Chinese panels/electronics and replaced with them with UK produced 63 parts.
For those that own 63 or 98 series speakers and wish to have the additional rigidity and mass of the 05 frame the Mye Stand is an excellent upgrade. It accomplishes the same task for far less money than switching to the 05 series.
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