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In Reply to: RE: Tympani IV vs IV-A? posted by AkuAnkka on November 09, 2014 at 09:05:30
Magnepan said in the manual that 30 hz is the initial frequency extension at -3db, expands over breakin and in room response by another 5 hz to 25 hz.See pages 15-16
I don't know where the numbers in the table came from.
Edit: THIS IS for the TYMPANI IV and IVA
Edits: 11/09/14Follow Ups:
Well, I think the 30 Hz for the T-IVa is after breaking in as the lowest resonant frequency is at 40 Hz during the manufactoring. Below the fundamental resonance, there will be cut-off at 18 dB/octave. A dipole does not get much help of the room.
My deep bass panel was marked "32" on one side and "35" on the other channel in red crayon. I am not sure that 40 hz was always the defacto resonance peak. In y measurements the resonance peak appears in the low 30s, not really 40hz.
I think the spec (like they measure) is 30 hz initial and 25 hz final.
My T-IIIA low bass drivers have 46 Hz and 55 Hz written on the frame. If I measure them today (after 25 years in storage) it is 34-35 Hz. Have not measured my T-IVa yet. Stereoplay measured 40 Hz.
My bass panels were restored at magnepan, one a couple of years back and one 15 years ago. They measure about the same and not off from the numbers on the frame. The 40 hz must have been measured before the speakers broke in to any extent.
I must say 46 and 55 is not a close match. Are they both the same type panel?
The T-IIIA low bass panels are without buttons. The lower section of the driver is tuned to 55 Hz, the upp to 46 Hz. These have heavy copper wiring. Mine are now 39 years old...
The mid bass panels are tuned to 55, 70 and 80 Hz, two buttons on each panel.
The midrange panels are tuned to 71, 71, 97, 110 and 155 Hz, four buttons each.
All these numbers mentioned here are written on the frames of the drivers. With usage these numbers lowers, especially the lowest ones.
I don't remember all the numbers any longer and don't remember where I wrote them down. I am tempted to take the socks off again but I am not sure it is worth the trouble.
I expect the resonance numbers would fall during break in and then slowly drift down. But not from 46/55 to mid 30s. That is a lot of change.
JL
The manual and 30 hz figure is for the Tympani IVA (and IV - hardly anything is different) not for the 3.6; I never heard a 3.6 do satisfying Liszt on piano.
If it isn't doing "satisfying Liszt on piano" how can it be expected to 'deliver the goods' on a Mahler symphony?
Not without subwoofers and you don't get quite enough output in the mids. The 3.6 are great speakers, just not really full range.
'Satie' wrote:
"The manual and 30 hz figure is for the Tympani IVA (and IV - hardly anything is different) not for the 3.6; I never heard a 3.6 do satisfying Liszt on piano."
Liszt wrote a lot of soft, non-bass heavy (and relatively quiet) piano music, so IMO nothing extraordinary in the way of a speaker would be required to reproduce that - so your blanket statement (?) regarding Liszt compositions seems silly. I'm confident in that inmates here can improve upon the listening experience in and around using Maggies, however the OP inquired about the bass output of stock Maggies; Tymps IV, IV-A 2.X and 3.X. Similar to the majority of Maggie users (and not those in the asylum, excepting cases in which warranties remain in effect), I've only listened to stock Maggies.
In my listening room, 3.6s fail to 'turn me on' (using any program material), so I don't regard them as being good speakers. Even my dealer who installed them told me that there is much I'd have to get used to in order to enjoy the 3.6, as compared to my IV-A, at least in my listening room.
(I have a recording of Mahler's piano quartet, 1876 (DGG 447112), which I don't think requires a sub-woofer to satisfactorily reproduce. Coincidentally, many years ago when I told my dealer [who naturally is in business to sell equipment] that I was interested in buying sub for use along with my IV-A he jokingly replied 'what for?, your IV-A is a sub!)
There is plenty of mellow melancholy Liszt but that is not what we think of when we hear the name, we think of a Faustian Liszt battling his demons in the piano concertos Mefisto Waltz and the Paganini etudes, not the Abbe contemplating existence here and beyond in the anees de pelerinage.
Since I listen to chamber music at in the room volumes I can easily see the 3.6 not being able to fill that bill either. I think of the Tympani IV and IVa as a great speaker and the 3.6 as a good or very good one when biamped. I don't expect it to be a near tympani in performance. I am sure that the maggie novice asking about the relative merits is not quite aware that the Tympani is predecessor to the MG20, not a deconstructed 3.6.
I think I have been over this before regarding the MG3.6 and its lowest frequency ability.
The one I used (I hope they have some IPC "In Process Controll" that should pick up any deviation) had a resonance frequency around 43Hz and dropped rapidly below that.
Below 40Hz there was NOTHING of useful output.
So 30Hz is totally impossible for a MG3.6.
You may be able to hear it if You play loud and with a 30Hz note but it will be just that, being able to just hear it slightly.
So, not usable.
I have no clue to where they got 30Hz from.
This is part of my honest measuring result from that speaker model.
Cheers!
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
But then again, You may have been talking about the Tympani?
Hard to tell with this forum layout without quotes...
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
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