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In Reply to: RE: A thank you and a question posted by Davy on September 12, 2014 at 17:58:08
Just a question for YOU, Davy.
Is the length of the wire/ ribbon on the driver the same between 20.1 and 20.7, for example?
Is the resistance the same?
If yes, I'd say the same amount of aluminum was involved. Just squished flat in the .7 case. I'll bet the amount of wire is within GRAMS between drivers. The foil just looks lighter, or like it SHOULD be lighter, maybe?
I've HEARD GL's 20s and the setup is no-compromise, which is a BIG help. The net effect is AWESOME and I suspect would answer many 'would it fit?' questions I see here on a regular basic. The answer is a probable 'yes', but at what cost in utility of space? You can do nearly anything is a personal listening space and get away with it.
Too much is never enough
Follow Ups:
I'm not sure of the exact specs of the 20.1 vs 20.7 drivers, as I don't think anyone has measured a 20.7.Yes sorry I am probably talking nonsense about the foil being lighter. It does have other advantages though, like better adhesion, and better damping of the diaphragm.
I think the MG20 midrange (though single ended, not push pull like in the MG20.1 and 20.7) still uses the QR foil. I had intended to rewire the mids of either my 3.3Rs or MGIIIas with foil (I have 3 spools I bought from Magnepan 3 years ago), but I have not got around to it yet. If I ever do it I'll post about the difference. (but I might not bother actually as I'd rather sell both and get a 20 or 20.1)
I had some Tympani IVas for a while (which I completely rewired, a 1 month job) and those were problematic in a small room as the bass crossover is set quite high and the bass was too directional when you were sitting close to them. Just didn't sound right. You need a big room for them. That's why I like the 20 series. Although they are big the bass crossover is lower and hence the bass is less directional, so I think they could actually work OK in a smaller room if necessary (even though it's obviously not optimal). They 20s have a Tympani level of performance in a higher but "smaller" overall package.
Edits: 09/15/14
I think not. In the Tyympani IV-A the bass panels can go anywhere in the room that can be placed distantly from the T/M. Although the 20's bass driver is most probably superior to that of the IV-A, in the latter there are two different drivers themselves contained in two separate but adjoining panels. Therefore the wave front arises from a much larger area, whereas in the 20.X, they are squished into a much smaller area. (Magnepan probably did that because due to their smaller footprint, they could accommodate a greater number of customers and possibly improved better WAF, as well. I lived with the IV-A for ~20 years and in 2 completely different listening rooms (both size and furnishings). I auditioned the 20 when it first appeared and IIRC there were certain things I very much like about it and in other areas, I felt they were lesser than to the IV-A. Of course, the last statement is nearly meaningless because they were heard in the dealer's showroom (which was quite large and with many components and speakers as well). Although I listened within an well insulated isolated room alone by myself, the dealer was adamant in that I not play them loud, (at least not as loud as I did play my Tympanis at times, a restriction which I did not care for believing that possibly they were more susceptible to damage).
Perhaps I should have said that the 20 series has a "near" level of performance to Tympani level performance in a smaller package. I acknowledge the Tympani IVa has a larger bass panel radiating area, which is certainly advantageous, but as the bass crossover is set to a higher frequency the position of the bass drivers is given away more easily which makes it harder to get the to work in a small room. Roger said that older Tympani III is one of the best Tympanis for a smaller room as the bass crossover is set significantly lower and is 4th order not 3rd order (which also helps),. No ribbon tweeter though of course. I guess you could play around with the IVa bass crossover somehow if you were biamping or triamping.The 20 series has push pull bass drivers, which in theory is advantageous in terms of dynamics and punch, but yes the radiating area is less,- probably around 2/3s of the IVa.
Listening to speakers in different rooms does make it hard to give proper comparisons, due to slight differences in room dimensions and room/floor ceiling construction differences, and furnishings etc. Even if two rooms appear to be the same sort of size they can sound very different. Also a shame the dealer did not let you listen to the MG20 as loud as you'd ahev liked
I would be very interested to hear from someone who has heard both the IVa and a 20 series in exactly the same room and same setup.
The different crossovers also impart some significant differences. The Tympani IVa crossover is quite similar to the MGIIIa crossover, in that its voiced to have quite an "upfront" sound with quite a lot of output in the presence region. The 20 and 20.1 crossovers in comparison have a slight dip in that area, which (in my opinion) makes long term listening more pleasant. That would also certainly account for some difference in audition, you might have been very used to the way your IVas were voiced which could have been a factor in your opinion of the 20s. Someone might prefer the IVas if they prefer a more upfront sound and the 20s if they preferred a smoother, more relaxed balance. Personally, if I had kept my set of IVas I would likely altered the crossover slopes to voice things a little less aggressively.
Edits: 09/16/14
Thanks for your informed reply. The presentation (alone) afforded by the stock IV-A has spoiled me for other speakers.
Yes I think a lot of that comes from the forward/more aggressive voicing of the IVa stock crossover which you obviously like (and many other people too). The only other ribbon Magnepan voiced like that is the MGIIIa (the crossover is pretty similar to the IVa). It's too upfront for me but you'd probably love it.The 3.3, 3.5 and 3.6 models in comparison have a big localized dip in the presence region (the mid LP is 3rd order) and these are even more laid back and relaxed sounding, more so than the even the 20 series.
The Stock 3.3R crossover was way too relaxed sounding even for me and I could actually audibly hear the dip that's visible on the crossover electrical response.I have not heard them but I suspect the stock tonality of either the 20 or 20.1 would probably be perfect for me.
Edits: 09/16/14
It is true that the 3.6 has been criticized for having a laid back midrange. I think it is also partly a question of what listening distance is used. There are certainly differencies in rooms in different countries that can play a role.
Yes the 3.6 also has a dip, but I don't think its quite as much as the dip with the 3.5 and 3.3. It was very audible for me with the 3.3R.
Yes I think listening distance and listening volume also play a role. The slightly u shaped balance is probably better for quieter listening.
The thinnest foil they have is equal to AWG 32.
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