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In Reply to: RE: Are my ears really that sensitive? posted by Davey on September 10, 2014 at 20:09:08
TRY THIS ONE ON FOR SIZE...Pull out your ears or put wine corks behind the out rim of each ear while you listen to music....Probably it is something every one knows---a noticeable and wonderful change occurs in the depth and fullness of sound...I am 60 plus and need every audible advantage...this one of the cheapest fixes I have every found..Ears are that sensitive...Crazy UT
Follow Ups:
Yey! Ain't that the truth, UT! I am also intrigued by the SQ differences in corks. Like, if the cork came from a bottle of Merlot wine it doesn't quite develop as much slam as if from Malbec. Hmmm, actually, they both equalize to the same slam if one drinks the whole bottle, come to think of it. LOL!
Oh, and remember the old "arms behind the head" trick? I love it but can't find a way to measure the frequency response unless I glue the damned microphone to an elbow. : - ))
On a more serious note, Davy you seem to be on the right track, kudos! With the feedback from some of your measurements and what your ears tell you, you will keep discovering a few fun and useful things. Your "...you never know until you try..." is right on the money.
Here is the measurement I had last night after adjusting the MGIIIa crossover to stock MGIII (35uF caps on the external HP, and disabling the internal crossover's midrange inductor).
Compared to stock MGIIIa (see higher up the thread) the midrange is overall reduced in volume, with the peak around 1-2 KHz much improved, but the 400-900Hz area is more sucked out.
Will measure again soon with 45 or 60 uF worth of caps on the external HP. 45uF sounds great to me so far. Pretty well balanced. Perhaps I would like a bit less midrange suckout and more output in the 100-200 Hz region (like there is with the later Maggie 3 series models) but that would probably be quite hard to do without completely redesigning the crossover and changing many values.
Cheers, yeah that's right. I'm not too technical with stuff like Davey and Satie are, but just like playing around, and you never know until you try is quite true with Maggies in my (reasonably limited) experience. Magnepan must do that to some degree too, - look at all the tension buttons in the 3.7 for example. I suspect some of that was done by trial and error.I find it useful and v interesting to have some solid technical input at times though, so many thanks for your sound input Davey, and thanks to Satie who in the past pretty much taught me all I know about crossovers etc. Didn't do that much physics at school (wish I had) but it's really great to learn a little bit to help with this hobby later in life!
The stock MGIII crossover was good (much better than the MGIIIa crossover IMO) but I had a bit of a suckout between 400-900 Hz, though the troublesome 1-2 Khz area was much improved. The bass was also a little too prominent. Will post the Anthem ARC FR graph of this setup I measured last night (average of 5 different microphone positions around the listening area).
To improve things Roger (who has experience and some simulation software) kindly suggested to increase the external HP caps to 60 uF, which decreases the midrange dip and the 1-2 KHz is still much better than the MGIIIa crossover (the latter had a considerably bigger peak). I used Neo's spreadsheet to run simulations too and saw the same thing.
I've increased the midrange caps from 35 uF to 45 uF and really like the result. Bass is less muddy and not as overbearing, and the suckout in the midrange is really improved. I tried 60 uF too and that was pretty good, but the bass was getting a little weak. I suppose that also adjusting the tweeter attenuation resistor would alter the balance as well so I need to try that too with these new different cap values.
I am not sure how Magnepan got the original MGIII to sound well balanced with 35uF of caps on the external HP (and it does sound excellent, from my memories of my Father's MGIII). With this exact same crossover setup put in the MGIIIas it clearly sounds too sucked out in the 400-900Hz region and that's very visible on both in room FR graphs, the electrical simulation, and what you hear (well, what I hear!). I have the original Magnepan Schematic for the MGIII which Karen kindly emailed me a few years ago. (I should probably submit it to the MUG page), and 35 uF caps is definitely what they used. Perhaps the bass or midrange drivers in the actual MGIII had different sensitivity?. Perhaps they used different gauge of aluminium wires altering the resistance of the drivers? Will check with Magnepan RE the wire gauge as I'd be interested to know.
So I think somewhere between 45-60 uF on the external HP will be optimal for my MGIIIa. No parallel inductor (as in MGIIIa spec) is needed so it now an all first order bandpass like the MGIII. If you look at the electrical simulation, introducing the parallel 3.5 mH HP inductor actually makes the FR more peaky!, - especially in the 1-2Khz region by around 2 dB! That makes the speaker sound way too forward and hard to listen to in my opinion.
Edits: 09/12/14
Although each of our skulls vary, he nerves along the parietal bone somehow come into play.Obviously the frequency response from the 'speakers' remain 'objectively' the same sound as perceived becomes distorted in some sort of lively way. Once again I enjoy Davy and Satie figuring things out.
Your rhetoric is silly and pointless.
I don't speculate.....I'm just informing Davy/Satie the way the crossover network operates, electrically. Maybe you didn't catch/understand the fact that I agreed with Davy that small value tweeter resistor changes could certainly be audible with these transducers?
Anyways, you're perfectly at your leisure to ignore the engineering. Many in this hobby do. :)
Cheers,
Dave.
Hardly meant to offend...
No offense was taken. You comment was simply silly and had nothing to do with the topic under discussion in this thread.
As you've probably seen me say before, subjective evaluation is incontrovertible, so there's no way I can argue with what you or Satie or Davy or JBen or whoever is hearing. But what I can do is analyze the electrical changes of networks when they're made and determine whether the audible change has any basis in the engineering.
You fellas can beat me up all you want......I don't mind. :)
Dave.
I respect everything you say and try to do..What I offered was inappropriate given the context. Sorry.
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