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In Reply to: RE: Tube Monoblock Magnepan Advice posted by wheezer on August 21, 2014 at 09:33:43
Thanks for all the replies.
Try to answer a couple of questions:
1. Cary offers Clarity MR-style caps. They used to offer Jensen and Cardas.
2. The amp is performing fine. I actually had to box them up for several years. I have tried a couple of other amps. I thought the M-60s with all of its awards would be my final amp. Since that didn't work out, I am now thinking the six pacs are my final amp and its been a while and I should upgrade the caps.
3. I upgraded the caps in the maggies cross over and it made a real difference. So I hope it will also make a significant difference.
4. I am willing to spend more money $5k) for a tube, monoblock amp that is an improvement. But I think I have I a couple including the M60s and I keep coming back to the texture, lively and hefty sound of the six pacs
5. I replaced the power tubes with Gold Lion tubes. I also upgraded the splitter tubes which made a difference.
Follow Ups:
What is it that you want to change about the sound of your system? Do you need more output cpacity? tighter deeper bass? more dynamic mid or bass? Better top end extension or clarity?
There are a few options for amps that have that EL34 magic midrange but you don't seem that enthused to try any. Perhaps we could do better in suggestions if we knew what you want to improve.
If I could improve one area it would be imaging/sound stage/presence.
Ok, imaging/sound stage/presence we could pursue jointly then. It is not something that a single item creates all by itself, as you probably know already. Ironically, these can actually vanish if just "one something" goes wrong. For example, I can collapse the depth & 3D imaging to pancake thickness by kicking a cable too close to a small transformer or a power supply.
A couple of questions:
-- Have you ever had any of these 3 elements in THIS system before, to a level of your liking? (and perhaps lost some of it later?)
-- Is there any music that you like for its richeness of these 3 elements? If some of us find these same ones in our collections, we can compare notes as we go along.
I definitely understand everything has to be exactly right for the sound stage to shine.
I guess I was looking for an amp recommendation that excels at sound staging.
What do you find lacking in imaging/sound stage/presence?
Is the soundstage too flat, lacking in depth or width? Is its shape distorted (e.g. dented in the middle or having an arced shape). Or do all the performance spaces appear the same size?
Are images too ehereal and lacking body or are they smeared or unsaturated in tone? are they not specific enough?
I am assuming that the presence issue is a lack of low treble upper mid energy. That is often a part of having the midrange magic as somewhere in the 2-3 khz range there is up to a 2-3 db drop in FR, and it is sometimes a lack of dynamic power.
I would say I wish the images were more specific with more body.
I think your comment about a lack of dynamic power is my concern. Any thoughts on whether the Cary v12r would provide a substantial improvement in power over the six pacs?
This might be the best avenue to explore since it they used el 34s and are probably voiced similar to six pacs.
My understanding is that the later model V12s are using the same circuit as the six-pacs. The six-pacs sounded better than the original V12 so Cary updated the V12 using the six-pac design.
I picked up this commentary on the KT120 and KT150. I suggest you ask AES/Cary about using KT150s in your sixpacs. It would probably hit on all the weaknesses you pointed to and if they don't work for you then you can resell them for > 60% of cost - without the total loss you are likely to have with a cap and diode upgrade.
10-25-13: Lissnr
Yes, The KT 150's have arrived and they are spectacular. I am originally an EL-34 guy who was addicted to the midrange but also played with SED winged C 6550's for their better extension and somewhat more openness, speed and clarity across the board. I've also run EH KT-88's, so this is the extent of the brand and models my Cary Sa 280 V12R's and my CJ Premier 12's were fed. I have used both amps individually and both amps together bi-amping my Apogee Duetta Sigs (Rebuilt by True Sound Works). A lot of fun. I used an active dedicated electronic crossover in the final combination before I switched out both amps but at the time it was CJ's handling the woofers and the Cary handling the mid/tweeter...Punch/dynamics, extension, serious imaging and space and glorious vocals.
Fast forward to my new TRL mono blocs and the arrival of the KT 120's. Very punchy, good extension, nice air and a mid that wasn't quite the same as an EL-34 but surprisingly on the warm-er side of things....I had heard it would have the extension of a high powered KT-88 along with mids approaching a 34...Overall it wasn't too far off but I felt the mids were perhaps just a little too "warm and fuzzy" for my application... You had to really be discerning because the overall sound of the tube was very nice, but for my system it came pretty close but didn't quite replace the 34/6550 combo I had hoped.
Don't get me wrong...I was pretty much "Done" as far as tubes...they were reliable, seemingly robust, and did a very satisfying job, albeit with the described points...
When someone first mentioned KT 150's my first instinct was to say 'Why do we need that??" Will it be an improvement? Really? And is there really a market for even more power? (the 120's were "plenty" although the expression about having more power is usually nice...).
Fast forward again and I managed to get myself 2 matched quads of brand new 150's (My amp manufacturer (TRL) not only said my amps could handle them but actually encouraged me to try them as he was having great results and really liked the tube). So I replaced the 120's with the 150's and was very pleasantly surprised by how much more they added to the mix...Essentially all the benefits of the 120's plus a midrange that rivals my beloved EL-34's AND gets me the top to bottom extension of an 88 or the 120's in spades. Even more dynamic than you thought you'd ever want, as I said: "great mids"...and sweet highs [though I haven't completely explored to full top and bottom yet as my amps had been recently rebuilt and are still breaking in]. Very very promising though..I think they're a real winner.
Try them.
Lissnr (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
To add my personal experience into the mix, I use little Dyna III on my midrange in a triamped setup with the following progression 6550C to KT90 to KT120. I liked the KT90 but it had a grey haze to it that was a slight annoyance. The KT90 was more dynamic and bassy than the 6550C. On the downside you lost a bit of clarity. The KT120 is warmer, even more dynamic and does not lose much to the 6550C in clarity or clean extension. I like the KT120 better on all counts.
If the KT150 is just like the KT120 just built to better standards and having more of an EL34 like midrange, then you should try it, I know I would if I could.
Keep your six-pacs and run them as is, they are fine as they are. If you want to make a change, look at some speaker cables, they will make a bigger change than a re-cap will.
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