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In Reply to: RE: Here is my $.02... posted by JBen on July 25, 2014 at 16:20:33
JBen and Satie,
Thanks again for more input. Perhaps I should play around with some concrete blocks in the interim.
In terms of my constant experiments on placement I just keep trying to balance strengths.
Tweets out Limage arrangements (8 to 11 ft from FW) give the best 3 D depth and layering. The issues are a slightly excessive upper bass lower mid warmth (with the DWMs) or excessive upper emphasis (without DWMs). If too far out from the front wall or too close to the sides I lose some center fill on naturally recorded chamber music (not on spot miked stuff though). In addition I cannot toe the speakers in to get time alignment. It ruins the a Limage effect and adds even more upper bass bloat.
Setups closer to the front wall (close for me is six or seven feet) gain some snap and dynamics but seem claustrophobic to me. Even when it sounds good it makes me want the bigger sound stage. Personal issue I guess.
Tweets out is my current experiment. Even with DWMs, the upper bass is totally lacking in bloat. It measures down a couple db but sounds great. The time alignment of tweet, mid, bass and DWM really adds some magic. In addition, even if the tweeters are as much as ten feet apart, there is surprisingly no issue for center fill on any music. Images are a bit wider, most noticeable as slightly wider center vocals. Highs are a tad suppressed, not a good thing in my system. Overall, though I am shocked at how good tweets out sounds in my narrow untreated room.
What I am still looking for is the holographic layering of the Limage the snap of closer to FW, and the time alignment magic of tweets out. All that with no bloat and great highs.
I have not yet found the perfect spot despite two months of experiments. That said, virtually every set up I try sounds better than just about everything I heard regardless of cost at Chicago Axpona. Oh, and it is light years better sounding than Maggies I've heard set up at dealers.
Oh and my room is real simple. A 20 by 14 by 8 shoebox shaped room in a basement. No issue with windows behind. Acoustical tiles in roof. Heavy carpeting. No room treatment other than two trees on FW. Total freedom of seating location and system (dedicated music room).
Any other ideas are welcome. Experimentation is good, especially before I add heavy stands. Perhaps I should call GIK before calling Grant?
Follow Ups:
LOL, somewhere along the line I lost track of the fact that you now have 3.7i, not just MG3a, as I remembered. I have to reset a few things in my mind. For one, I can't go and suggest that you start drilling holes on the newer Maggies...much less doing bi-amping surgery : - ))
One thing, for now, don't rush to GIK. Dampening too much is a risk . I find that if one can manage to retain as reflective a room as possible, the imaging & soundstage are richer. That's the general idea...the specifics depend on various things, but this you already know.
Speaking of the MG3a, did you ever get rid of the "U" soundstage or is it still bothering with the 3.7i?
I combined the reply here with the one on the other thread....
As to u shaped sound stage, this IS an element which in varying degrees affects most positions even with the new speakers. Further discussions on the topic are probably constructive, as I am sure others have experienced it. I have eliminated it completely before, though in a wider and larger room.
Here is a description of the problem in minor and major manifestations. In real problem set ups, the issue is that the most depth occurs in the middle and then wraps in closer to the speakers. It is like a horseshoe stage. I can eliminate this effect or stimulate it based upon speaker and seat positioning and toe in.
The more moderate problem is with hard panned recordings of instruments or vocals coming exclusively from one speaker (think mid sixties pop engineered in three way mono). These tend to "collapse" the far left or right channel into the speaker. It isn't so noticeable in seating locations that are further away, but is often, indeed almost always an issue for me in my current room if listening nearfield.
Does anyone else have thoughts or suggestions or tweaks on this issue?
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