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In Reply to: RE: HK/Limage posted by Roger Gustavsson on June 26, 2014 at 02:00:39
Limage is an adherent of the chopstick or bow and arrow mod to control the pole piece/magnet board vibrations and he expects it also to prolong the life of the bass drivers by preventing their curvature increasing permanently over time.
I also disagree with his notion of the light diaphragm not requiring mass loading or at least structural bracing. My experience with bass performance is that the benefit is startlingly clear with high power bass content like piano's bottom octave and massed contrabass and organ foot pedals. Just bracing the top of the bass panels to the wall gives you a 6-8 db increase in bass PEAK output at 30-40 hz if you have the power to do it (I use a 2kw/ch to 20hz/2.5 kw/ch to 30hz linear pro amp from Crown).
I also agree with the point on polar response being an issue that needs to be addressed at the crossover or physical driver arrangement. I recessed the mid/treble panels relative to the face forward bass panels in order to be able to use 1st order crossovers. That still leaves a problem in phase between the midbass and deep bass panels of the TIV in that setup. I may just have to go back to sharp bass low pass (4rth order) to narrow the problem freq range. I believe maggie XOs being spaced far apart in hp and lp corner freq are actually good on face forwards setups, not only on axis.
I have an issue with the monkey walk method since it does not happen in every room and position but the sonic effect still works just fine. So when I tell people how to set it up I start with the initial geometry and ask them to adjust from there. Whether or not there is the "snap together" room focus point or not, the desired detachment of the soundstage from the speakers is very obvious once you get far enough from the front wall, and sorely missed when the speakers are pulled too far beyond it.
Follow Ups:
Satie,
Yeah. My lock in points were at approximately 40 and 50% out from FW. I did try the monkey walk, and for me it worked best when I faced the back wall (turned my back to the speakers). The two spots where I got the cathedral were the two spots I have already taped based upon good old fashioned experimentation -- the first and loudest at about 8 feet and the second at 10 foot exactly.
The biggest trouble with the monkey walk was that since I did it on my knees I was afraid my wife would catch me and think I was praying to my stereo.
About the curvature, not much of it in my three sets of Magneplanars. The Tympani IVa mid have it but not the bssses. The Tympani IIIA are almost flat, maximum 0.2 mm on the basses. I cannot remember what the 3.6 had. For the moment all three are in storage and cannot be measured.
In respect of a healthy discussion, does anybody who has tried it, NOT prefer the Limage type set up?
I understand that many people can't pull off the set up due to room or practicality issues (you probably need a dedicated room with a show box shape). But for those who can use it and have tried it, have any of you wanted to go back to the conventional setup?
Personally, I am totally addicted to the Limage sound.
I would love to hear more from others though, especially those with different preferences.
I feel like I got awfully lucky (for lack of a better word) in that my speakers landed in what seems to be the perfect place @ 8'7" off the front wall. I'm entering the third weekend with this arrangement and I've actually been listening fairly intently for a reason to complain. Aside from a weirdness below a certain volume (well below any level that I'd ever listen - made the discovery quite by accident), I haven't stumbled on a weakness.
I can't remember ever making any sort of change that had this profound of an impact - one which I perceive to be uniformly better in every aspect of sound quality, not just an astonishing image. Before trying it, I was a silent detractor - I considered it a bad idea. My skepticism was slaughtered swiftly and cleanly.
I just cranked War's 'City, Country, City' and it was alive . Before that, I played some Smoke and Mirrors Percussion Ensemble - holy crap! It doesn't matter what I play, the sound is flippin' incredible.
I have to return the speakers to a more traditional arrangement - perhaps, just fiddle with toe angle where they currently reside. I just don't want to right now. This is intoxicating. Yep...Hello, I'm Kevin and I'm an addict. This addiction doesn't need a cure - it appears to be a cure. It goes on forever...this four cornered room (and oh my, does the song 'Four Cornered Room' explode with this setup). Although, a healthy comparison demands a return to the former setup for the most honest assessment, I just can't bring myself to change a thing right now.
Sorry, but I can't provide a dissenting opinion. I can only echo your impression, or amplify it. There are no speakers; there is no room - amazing, addictive.
Well, I've only been trying it for a couple of weeks, and as I mentioned before, the tape (marking the old speaker position) is off the floor, meaning I'm sticking with the new arrangement for a while.
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