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In Reply to: RE: A picture will save me a thousand words,... posted by Satie on June 14, 2014 at 16:07:22
I like this better than the Rooze arrangement. I still get pinpoint images in space, but those points of sound can be steered throughout a magnificent panorama which practically engulfs me. Here's a photo from a different angle with a wide angle lens.
I'm surprised that it took me this long, as well. I know better than to be closed minded. I like experimenting. I have no excuse, but better late than never, eh?
Follow Ups:
I decided on "making" the HK/Limage setup when I had fought with the Rooze for a long while. I had demoed it for a former MG20 owner (now into Focal Utopias as well) who was firmly enthralled with the presentation but was non commital about liking the bass - which is a good thing since the bass was wooly (to be kind to myself). Imaging was on a grand panoramic scale but the precision was lacking and some recordings were comical in the big violin type presentation.
The HK/Limage setup I tried on the long wall restored the pinpoint precision and opened the front of the soundstage like nothing I ever heard before This was all done without scaling down the soundstage where it was big but without the ridiculous presentation of some chamber music in the Rooze setup.
I did a split arrangement with the bass panels in the appropriate 1/4 wave position as one of the Limage clique's Tympani owners had done, and the mid/tweeter in its own HK/Limage perpendicular position. Spatially this was the most spectacular but there was a coherence issue with the far off bass panels. Also drawing the mid/tweet too close to the wall could give caricature like presentations like taking apart a drum kit and distancing its component sounds so far apart you can't even imagine one person having the reach to operate it.
In the current short wall set of arrangements I have hit on a set of arrangements with a time alignment of the acoustic center of the bass panels (face forward) rather than of each panel. This is a contiguous arrangement without separating the bass panels from the upper freq portion. The soundstage is full sized and varies in perceived depth - growing deeper as the setup is pulled forward from the 40% point to the 60% point (% of the room's depth front to back). The imaging is precise and pianos are opened up so that you can hear the strings separate from the soundboard in space(provided the recording has it). The soundstage is not as great as it could be as it gets to 20-25 ft wide but no more. It gives sort of a Met Opera square stage presentation. With the mid tweets closer to the wall in the split config the soundstage was only limited by the recording and could get to be 40 ft wide.
Bass is very full as this captures the oblique resonance and thus creates a giant peak at 30-40 hz so that the -3 db point off of the midrange is at 20 hz. The 30 hz prominence is at +6 db 30-40hz and + 3db 25hz to 50+hz. Very satisfying and helps you keep up with the Fletcher Munson curves.
I'm still experimenting with went. Went back to normal setup for a while, but have been intrigued enough to try the HK/Limage setup again. I think Wazoo was swallowed up by his soundstage, which is why we haven't heard back from him in a while. :)
i know what it's like. He is likely racing through his recordings to find out how each is laid out spatially. He is probably stunned by how different the spatial presentation is from one recording to the next.
The 'musicians on a stage' imaging is better than it was (which surprised me), but what really gets me is the music which has a synthesized sound field, some of which creates a massive space in my room. Back when I experimented with the Rooze, I was a bit saddened by the fact that it just wasn't practical for my purposes in that room. On the other hand, it made some things sound a bit weird - too much scale and too vaguely located. So far, I haven't found an Achilles' heel with the HK/Limage setup.
I'm at work today, which means that I shut the system off before midnight last night. Until last night, I was in the cave past 2:00AM every night since going perpendicular. I thought it was a crazy idea; now it's an idea about which I am crazy!
My initial enthusiasm hasn't waned one tiny bit; in fact, it's still burgeoning.
The best part of this...is ALL the music you are listening to...
This is just me and my process...I listen a minimum of two weeks...just to get past my critical "Audiophile" listening...I play random allot...this makes me listen and react to music that I am not always familiar with...I look for that being pulled in by the music, the "good" sound is just conveying recorded event...Capturing the purity is on the recording process...The emotional chord struck in conveying all of nuances of a performance is why I am here...when it all comes together...the "system" steps back and let's the music move us...
Wow, get your boots...that was some deep $hit...YES, if the change is major in sonic presentation good or bad...I won't listen my min. 2 wks...but moving Maggies needs a little time to marinate...especially with small moves, 1/2" at a time or major moves...switching tweeters or the moving way into the room...
Example: Interconnect change, to a more expensive cable, (I usually try to replace DAC to PRE, PRE to AMP with the same cables at the same time when I can), have had these cables for a month...I do think they are better in many aspects, but have not blown me away by no means...old cables needs to go back in, my "sonic" memory they had better mid bass, not as thin on high mids and lower treble...not as resolving and the newer ones have better soundstage, imagining......always trade offs, but nothing major where I would not be happy with either cable...it might end up being a combo of the 2 different cables??
Kind of like moving speakers and discovering possibilities of all the different locations and how you can "tune" your planars to your preferred listening style...IMHO...
I have not gone back to perpendicular yet...but I will and listen again...
Look at us...(on this board)...we are adventurous if we move speaker locations...my 20 year old self would punch his 50 year old self right in the face...
thanks
Mark
Mark,
Since you are the only person to upgrade to the 3.7i, did you notice the tape over the back of the midrange reducing the output compared to the original version? I seem to remember you taking before and after frequency measures. Did upper midrange get measurably attenuated? Just wondering.
Yes the tape is full-length on the back it starts on the edge of the mid range ribbon and then goes to the left over the bass panel.... The tape does have some thickness to it.. Somewhere between a 32nd and a 16th of an inch... Where it's taped to the magnetic pole pieces you can see the black surface of the face of the tape... And a very industrial facing on the tape...
Since the upgrade I've changed cables.... So I am going to go back to my original cables when I did dad halfhearted frequency test, before they came 3.7i's...
Then see if there's any difference with the Newer cables... After the test is done with the original cables...
Will keep you posted on the results...
SC.... Thanks again for your inquiry
Take care
Mark
Well, that's what I've been doing as well..... :)
I like the plants you put in the back--looks forestry! What is the view from your listening chair?
...this would be its view. You know, when it hit the floor. ;-)
Actually, I found it impossible to get a full system shot with the 14mm lens. I'll have to see if my son has something between this and what's on my camera (which was in the house).
Looks like a cathedral!
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