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RE: Acoustat 2+2's

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In Reply to: RE: Acoustat 2+2's posted by blgtrio on April 11, 2014 at 18:07:33

I found a pair of 2+2's in great condition with the Medallions and the "C" mod. I was hoping someone would respond to this thread. Thanks to JimK for making my wish come true. Also thanks to Norman M and JBen for their kind words. LOL

Follow Ups:

After living with them for over twenty years... - E-Stat 20:26:16 04/16/14 (24)
1. Replace the internal Monster cable stat. It will be horribly oxidized if still there
2. Bypass the fuse. I never had any trouble driving them with 450 watt VTL amps
3. Replace factory burlap socks with tightly stretched spandex for better top end response
4. Use a laser pointer to establish perfect speaker alignment/toe in
5. Give panels a good heat treatment
- RE: After living with them for over twenty years... - blgtrio 18:38:09 04/17/14 (23)
  Thanks E-Stat. I have read quite a few of your threads and responses regarding the Acoustats. I am sending back my 1+1 MK-121C Medallion interface units to Roy E. in Fla. I have emailed him twice and he responded that he will answer my questions when he gets some free time. So hopefully he will get back to me soon. Do you know what the "Air Mod" upgrade is that Roy offers? I have the 2+2's coming to me sometime in the next month. That is when I plan on sending my 1+1 Interface units to Roy. Hopefully he will respond within a month.
  - "Air Mod"? - E-Stat 05:57:32 04/18/14 (21)
    Sorry, not aware of what that involves.
    
    I picked up a set of used 1+1s for a song a couple of years ago, but alas they are an early version. I re-socked them, but I would love to pick up a set of Medallion transformers.
    - RE: "Air Mod"? - blgtrio 12:07:26 04/28/14 (0)
      Hey E-Stat, could you post any close up pictures of your 1+1's with the spandex material, also maybe a picture showing the full length top to bottom. Just wanted to get an idea what it looks like. Thanks, Blgtrio
    - RE: "Air Mod"? - morricab 12:31:03 04/21/14 (1)
      I just left the old dirty socks off of mine. I was quite lucky, I picked up a pair with medallion (blue) transformers in perfect working condition (no stretched membranes) for only 120 bucks! I then spent another 100 bucks on upgraded caps and that made a huge improvement.
      - RE: "Air Mod"? - blgtrio 16:28:30 04/21/14 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Air Mod"? posted by morricab on April 21, 2014 at 12:31:03
        
        Lucky Duck
    - RE: "Air Mod"? - blgtrio 10:45:01 04/18/14 (0)
      Hey E-Stat. I forgot to mention to you. Wouldn't Roy E. be able to upgrade your Interface units to the Medallion status?
    - RE: "Air Mod"? - blgtrio 10:40:26 04/18/14 (16)
      Hey E-Stat. I bought my 1+1's used in 2001. They still have the original burlap socks. If you could tell me what size or how much spandex is needed to do both 1+1's. Is it a special grade of spandex that slips over like a sock. If you could send me a link or a picture it would help me be able to visualize it. Also you mentioned upgrades to the 1+1's in an earlier post. One was replace the Monster cable Stat. Is that something Roy would do as part of his upgrading the MK-121's? Please tell me about the heat treatment? Unfortunately I don't have a hair dryer. To hard on my hair and scalp.
      - RE: "Air Mod"? - E-Stat 11:12:18 04/18/14 (15)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Air Mod"? posted by blgtrio on April 18, 2014 at 10:40:26
        
        They still have the original burlap socks.
        Definitely need to upgrade those as the originals deaden the top end response.
        If you could tell me what size or how much spandex is needed to do both 1+1's. Is it a special grade of spandex that slips over like a sock.
        What I did was remove the old ones and took one to a clothing alterations shop. I told them I wanted to make new socks and the lady provided an estimate of the number of yards required. Sorry - I don't remember the answer! I went to the local Hancock Fabric store and found the most open spandex (stretch fabric used mainly for athletic clothing) and brought it to the seamstress. She cut them to length and sewed them lengthwise in a tube such that the seam runs down the back. I told her that I wanted the fabric stretched tightly such that you can see through it - just like the way my Sound Lab U-1s came from the factory. Total cost was about $100 for materials and labor.
        One was replace the Monster cable Stat.
        I think its same to assume if you had the original wire that looked like this:
        
        then, he would replace it! The oxidation caused an artificial hard brightness on top.
        Ideally, you would use a heat gun, but a high powered hair dryer does work. The mylar stretches over time and causes the surface to "wrinkle". Passing the dryer over the surface at a couple of inches at an angle with a slow constant motion will gradually cause the diaphragm to contract and return to its original tension. Works the same way as weatherproofing kits that use a thin sheet of mylar over a windowsill. You tape around the periphery and use a dryer to pull the surface tight.
        If Roy has some extra Medallion transformers, I would be interested in what it might cost to upgrade them. I already purchased the 47uF film caps and would like to be able to put them to use.
        
        Edits: 04/18/14
        
        RE: "Air Mod"? - Sondek 15:50:20 04/18/14 (13)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Air Mod"? posted by E-Stat on April 18, 2014 at 11:12:18
        
        Not sure it's the right ones for you, but there's a pair of MK121-2a Blue Medallions on that on-line auction site right now. No affiliation, just passing on a tip.
        
        Thanks! - E-Stat 16:10:56 04/18/14 (12)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Air Mod"? posted by Sondek on April 18, 2014 at 15:50:20
        
        Now I feel both stupid and happy!
        
        My confusion rests with viewing the cap values and thinking they weren't consistent with the Medallions. The big electrolytic is a 220 uF value so I'm still confused. I thought that would be a 47 uF. Need to return to Audio Circuit and bone up on Andy's comments...
        
        RE: Thanks! - blgtrio 17:20:24 04/18/14 (11)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by E-Stat on April 18, 2014 at 16:10:56
        
        The blue Medallions didn't have the "C" mod. The red Medallions came with the "C" mod. It is an improvement but not nearly as much as the Medallion Upgrade.
        
        RE: Thanks! - E-Stat 15:33:26 04/28/14 (10)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by blgtrio on April 18, 2014 at 17:20:24
        
        It's hard to get a clear close up shot. I took one with a light behind it to get a feel for the openness (porosity?).
        
        The key is the fabric can be stretched tightly so that you can almost see through it.
        
        RE: Thanks! - john65b 17:37:40 04/28/14 (9)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by E-Stat on April 28, 2014 at 15:33:26
        
        Hey all, just picked up a pair of 2+2 with blue medallion. I haven't heard them yet....spent all day cleaning them off - years of cat/dog hair and dust...
        
        I will be removing the black socks and wash them, and remove the eight panels and give them a little bath too. Then maybe a little heat treatment, do the C-Mod (either Solens or get a cheap Poly caps - anything is better than an electrolytic), then resock and take a listen. No rear pads planned...
        
        Apexjr has Aerovox 35uf Met-Poly caps for $3.50 each (tell Steve I said Hi). Just add another small poly cap and your good to go.
        
        I VOID WARRANTIES
        
        Congrats John and BLG on your new 2+2s - Satie 20:51:12 05/05/14 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by john65b on April 28, 2014 at 17:37:40
        
        Love those speakers.
        
        RE: Congrats John and BLG on your new 2+2s - john65b 04:31:56 05/06/14 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Congrats John and BLG on your new 2+2s posted by Satie on May 05, 2014 at 20:51:12
        
        Pretty impressed so far....I do not believe I have the C Mod (think I saw that blue electrolytic) so that will be the first thing, then add another Cap/Diode onto the multiplier, Charge indicator Neon Lamp (al la Quad), then jumper the secondary side bass resistors...these may have some staying power after all...
        I VOID WARRANTIES
        
        RE: Congrats John and BLG on your new 2+2s - Satie 20:31:59 05/07/14 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Congrats John and BLG on your new 2+2s posted by john65b on May 06, 2014 at 04:31:56
        
        I think that outside of their outlandishly tall stature and tendency to beam high freq, they are great ESLs. I spent 2 weeks at a friend's with them and was very impressed. They convinced me to drop the Vandersteens and go for planars when budget allowed. I got the Tympani IV then modded it and in subsequent visits I was surprised by how well my midrange did in comparison considering how the memory of that 2+2 midrange was so deeply etched.
        
        RE: Congrats John and BLG on your new 2+2s - john65b 20:46:37 05/09/14 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Congrats John and BLG on your new 2+2s posted by Satie on May 07, 2014 at 20:31:59
        
        Hey all, I went ahead and did the C-Mod today - removed the 220uf electrolytic cap and added four 10uf polypropylene caps (total 55uf), and the 10 ohm resistor across the HF tranny, and kept the HF pot. I also jumpered both the 50k resistors (another tweak to clear and boost the mids). So far quite impressed. It now has the clarity as my modified CLS. I still need to spend a little more time on them, but thinking it did clear up the mids / highs.
        One thing I found strange was the bass tranny was set to 2 panels not four... wondering if this was the original setup, or previous owners attempt to boost the bass response?
        I VOID WARRANTIES
        
        Edits: 05/09/14
        
        RE: Thanks! - blgtrio 18:46:31 05/02/14 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by john65b on April 28, 2014 at 17:37:40
        
        Hello inmates, yesterday I had a great day driving to Binghamton NY to pick up a pair of Acoustat 2+2's in perfect shape. They have the latest red Medallion transformers the grill cloth is perfect and no marks or scuffs on the bases. I set them up next to my 1+1's. Went back and forth between the two for a while then decides to try both together for a while. It is staggering how powerful and deep the bass goes while the mids and highs are airy and sweet, such a wonderful relaxed but very tight sound. I have a Jeff Rowland Model 2 on the way so am looking forward to that combination. The Bryston amp sounds surprisingly good yet I known the JR will be a nice upgrade, I'll share the results once when it arrives the early part of next week. It sure is nice to be listening to 2+2's again.
        
        RE: Thanks! - Utley1 07:21:25 05/03/14 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by blgtrio on May 02, 2014 at 18:46:31
        
        Big Trio and John:
        Congratulations to you both...Truly Magnificent speakers. I once owned the ML CLS in 1988 and these are much more dynamic speakers with more reach and heft...Wil always wonder if they were as good as I remember them...Joy to you both.
        
        RE: Thanks! - blgtrio 11:37:28 05/03/14 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by Utley1 on May 03, 2014 at 07:21:25
        
        Thanks Utley1, I owned a pair of 2+2's from 1987 to 2001. I sold them(should have kept them). I aquired a pair of 1+1's in 2002 and I am still enjoying them. Now I have the 2+2's and 1+1's side by side. I switch between them. More intimate music I play on the 1+1's. When I am in the mood for techno,bluegrass or jazz I like the bigger fuller sound of the 2+2's. I was really lucky to find a pair. A few days before I made a deal with a guy in Hatteras, NC. I was to go pick them up. He never again returned my phone calls. I found these at Audio Classics in Binghamton, NY. Never dreamed I could come across another pair so soon. BTW my moniker is BLGtrio.
        
        RE: Thanks! - Utley1 12:05:56 05/03/14 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by blgtrio on May 03, 2014 at 11:37:28
        
        It takes passion and love to make them sing again, ordinarily.....You won the lottery....
        
        RE: Thanks! - blgtrio 18:19:46 05/05/14 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks! posted by Utley1 on May 03, 2014 at 12:05:56
        
        I've been really enjoying the Acoustat 2+2's that I picked up on Thursday. I have had them playing about 4 hours a day the last few days. I go back and forth between the 2+2's and the 1+1's which stand right beside them. I'm sending the MK121-C's from my 1+1's to Roy E. in Fla. to get the mods and upgrade service that he offers so I've unplugged the interfaces so they can discharge for a day, then I will pack them and send them on their way. I'm getting the "Air Mod" along with the servicing of the interface units. Roy said it is about 3 weeks turn around time not counting shipping. So for right now it's just the 2+2's. I think I can get by with just one set of Acoustats. LOL
        
        RE: "Air Mod"? - blgtrio 14:54:16 04/18/14 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "Air Mod"? posted by E-Stat on April 18, 2014 at 11:12:18
        
        Thanks E-Stat. I appreciate the helpful info. I don't think Roy would have extra Medallion transformers. I just figured he could modify the non Medallions up to Medallion status. I believe the high frequency biformer has changes in its windings, the low frequency biformer remained the same.
  - RE: After living with them for over twenty years... - zadfrak@gmail.com 04:54:18 04/18/14 (0)
    I've heard that combo together. Back in the day, of course. And the 6's with the 23.5. And through ML pre-amps.
    
    In my opinion, you will have to spend a lot more and take a lot of time to move into lets say a half step up.
    
    What I heard through them was obviously vinyl and all rock stuff. Supertramp type stuff, for example. Razor sharp. And, they also did that ML dynamics so when the music turns it up a notch, the speakers are right there. I don't think very many speakers do that kind of thing very well.
    
    But that ML extracts the info these speakers can produce. You need a high quality amp for that extraction. And, a pre-amp. That will cost more than the speakers and watch out if those caps need replacing. That cost alone is > the speakers.
    
    But I see no reason to not get 12-15 years of top shelf sound from that.
    I guess you need to dig up some reference recordings for the audition. That's important as well and it'll be exciting for sure.
    
    good luck.
RE: Acoustat 2+2's - JBen 09:50:23 04/16/14 (2)
Envious is what I am, LOL!

Actually, I am very happy that you got them and hope you can enjoy them for a very long while.
- RE: Acoustat 2+2's - blgtrio 16:03:20 04/16/14 (1)
  Thanks JBen. Since you responded again I'd like your opinion. The 2+2's will be delivered to me sometime between Easter and Memorial day. The guy is bringing along a Mark Levinson No. 23 power amp for me to audition.
  Have you ever used ML gear and do you think this amp would be a good match with the 2+2's?
  - RE: Acoustat 2+2's - JBen 20:09:44 04/16/14 (0)
    Me and my big mouth, huh! LOL.
    
    I have had 2 "quality" brushes with the Acoustat 2+2 (back in the 80s). I have also spent a few -- but not "quality" -- sessions with ML gear. By "quality" sessions I mean enough time with the equipment to form a properly qualified opinion.
    
    Also, I have never heard them both together.
    
    That said, the Mark Levinson listens were always part of high-end equipment combos that sounded great or impressive to me. I'd say that the ML must have played a major role in making things sound so nice.
    
    The 2+2 certainly want the kind of current heft and low-impedance stability that an ML of this type can provide. So, if you have the chance to audition the ML with the Acoustats, I hope that you have a collection of well-known (to you) pieces of music. Oh, and drive the combo prudently "hard-ish" listening for artifacts.
    
    You already know this about the Acoustat but both the 2+2s and this ML amp are old pieces. Before buying the ML -- assuming a good price -- make certain that the proper replacement parts are available (I think they are but check around anyway). I tend to do my own repairs if I can but if you are not inclined to do so yourself, check for the repair shops in your area...heavy amp to ship to factory. Best of luck!
    
    (and please keep asking if you need to...I charge "by the beer", I think Satie and Wazoo charge "by the wine glass"... the rest of the gang is "for free" right after the first case of beer or wine is finished. : - ))

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