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In Reply to: RE: Laugh it up..... posted by josh358 on April 05, 2014 at 05:37:58
Thanks for clearing that odd expression from that review!
I would however use the term IMD as that is the measurable result of it.
And yes, it will be a worse problem the smaller area of a membrane that is active.
Wire are the worst and electrostatic the best.
Cheers!
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
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We talked about it most recently with Helmholtz and his RD50 driver vs. Neo8 array, and referred back to the discussion of segmented drivers we had with Doug Schroeder after his review of the kingsound king with its segmented tweeters and woofers.
The kazoo effect is much reduced - if not eliminated - by segmenting the drivers so that longitudonal resonances on the mylar/kaladex are at a higher freq than the operational range of the driver. The speed of sound in mylar is far higher than in air, so the distortion is only heard on long drivers. It is an extra brightness with a rough texture to it. Suposedly it is better on the 3.7i than it was on the 3.7, which is reported by many to have less of it than prior models. Probably caused by the better damping of the QR vs. wire.
The effect is probably reduced with the 3.7s compared to the 3.6s. It surely seemed so at first, but it is far from gone - with some material, I find it impossible not to notice it (to the point of distraction). The weird thing is that they didn't do it as much when they were new. Thinking back, it was the same with the 3.6s.
Considering the real cost of the upgrade to 'i' status, I may be better served by purchasing 16ea Neo8 transducers. It would be fun to build another set of frames. Is this crazy talk?
Not at all.
But if you are going that way, you should sell the 3.7 and buy an older 3.x with a recent rewire, and tear that apart to put the tweeter and Neo8 array mid in a separate frame, and use the bass panel either in the original frame or in a new heavier and stiffer one. The difference in values would likely cover most if not all the cost of the Neo8 arrays.
...predicated upon cost alone or is there another reason why the 3.7 panel wouldn't be the best to use? Since it's all foil, I was thinking about the possibility of merging the midrange loops into the woofer. That woofer would still be relieved of the heavy lifting, thereby reducing the importance of mechanically isolating the ribbon and new midrange from it.
When I modified the connector plates, I knew that I was hurting the resale value of my 3.7s*. Heck, my wallet took a bruising just getting them - thanks to buying the 3.6s first. If I sold them, I think I'd go a different route - probably to ESLs.
*Yes, I can put things back like they were, but honesty dictates that I must disclose the fact that I messed with them. Some might appreciate the changes. Many would be fearful and I can understand that - they don't know me. ;-)
Well, Josh pointed out that the 3.7 is more "tuned" and he suspects that the tuning makes it into a 2.5 way speaker more than a 3 way. That would be like the TIV/IVa that had a tuned midbass and plain bass to make it a 3.5 way. The 3.6 would have a clearer XO transition. But the main issue is the cost difference.I don't think you would have a problem reselling once you put things back. If you take a pro with a storefront to finish it then you can say it was professionally returned to spec..
While I have no doubt that you could get this level of performance with a pair of subwoofers and a good large panel ESL, so you can overcome the dynamic limitations, it will cost you in space and money. The very top end will need a ribbon supertweeter to give you back the sparkle of the maggie ribbon on the top octave. Competing ribbon tweeters are not quite line sources unless you stack a number of them, and no ESL I heard does that top octave like a ribbon. The ones that might have it in them are the Kingsound and the Soundlabs.
I don't know if you need the dynamic scale of the Neo8 array. If you do, then there is no other planar that can do that so far as I know. It also sports a 95/6 db spl sensitivity (theoretically it is > 98 db but I don't think I get that in real life).
With a pair of subwoofers it is probably not going to be an issue to have the whole speaker in a single frame unless you play loud like I tend to.
Edits: 04/11/14
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