Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

Forgive me, I want to...

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buy a pair of Vintage Klipsch Cornwall's. Will someone please speak to me and talk me out of it. I have no room for them, I've never owned a pair, but have heard a few in the day. Very good, but not stellar. So why am I even thinking about them?

Help!

Jim
Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!

Follow Ups:

Go ahead - Satie 20:18:24 02/21/12 (4)
Just take into consideration that you will likely need to redo the XO with modern parts.

Its strengths are the maggie's weaknesses, and its weaknesses are the maggies strengths, so it is a very complementary piece to have for your more dynamically demanding music. It will help you define what you want the maggies to do better, and guide you on the upgrade/tweak/diy path forwards. Or just get a large Apogee and cross it over digitally with high slope filters so you can avoid the screech.
- It wasn't supposed to sound good! - Medium Jim 18:02:27 02/22/12 (3)
  I obtained a pair of 1/4 to RCA adaptors and had a chance to audition the BGW 500D. Danggumit, the damn thing sounds darn good. The fan noise is annoying between songs, otherwise, no complaints.
  
  It isn't as sweet as the Marantz's, doesn't have the depth in the soundstage, or the finesse either, but for some reason I like it. Maybe it is a blast to my past and that it goes as loud as can ever want.
  
  The bass is nice, the mids are not nearly as nice, but the highs are, but with a hint of grain. I had more grain with the Bryston 4b SST2 with a pair of 1.6's. It sort of reminds me of my old Parasound HCA 1500, but with more power, almost as much as the Bryston.
  
  It will be my in your face amp for rock and blues, but I will need to bypass the fan or replace it with a quieter one.
  
  The Marantz's are better in so many ways, but the BGW is very fun. The BGW 500D replaced the Crown 300 as the industry standard for movie theaters and was the first such amp to guarantee its rms wattage.
  
  And it was a freebie toss in on a couple of guitars I bought!
  
  Jim
  Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
  - RE: It wasn't supposed to sound good! - Medium Jim 19:53:19 02/22/12 (2)
    Just to make it clear, I'm not turning in my Membership to the Audiophile Society just yet and I will be listening to the Marantz's 95% of the time. What floors me is that the amp is basically a PA amp or for live applications, ergo, the 1/4 inputs.
    
    I was hoping it was going to be ho hum and just toss it up on eBay for a couple of bucks.
    
    Jim
    Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
    - RE: It wasn't supposed to sound good! - Satie 20:59:57 02/22/12 (1)
      Would you believe it? and some people even like Brystons.
      
      Hey, it may not have been carefully voiced to sound natural, since it is supposed to amplify actual performances, but it is well engineered to measure well in all performance criteria for the rather extreme demands of pro use. With some mods, many of the better pro amps can be put to audiophile use. The main plus being the high level of engineering and robust construction one gets for the money since there are economies of scale at the pro level that you just can't get in boutique audiophile equipmet without paying an order of magnitude more.
      
      The big deal is that you get minimal compression from the better pro audio amps, and ample power for the money. That makes for great fun driving difficult/inefficient speakers.
      - RE: It wasn't supposed to sound good! - Medium Jim 21:27:33 02/22/12 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: It wasn't supposed to sound good! posted by Satie on February 22, 2012 at 20:59:57
        
        Satie:
        
        I hear what you're saying. This model was used extensively in movie theaters as well as for PA systems. It came from an estate and was part of recording studio. If there was any stereo gear, it must have been sold prior and the only speakers were near field monitors. Again, it was a toss in to make the deal happen on a couple of guitars.
        
        You are right, it drives the 2.5's with relative ease, but so do the Marantz's, just not to live concert levels. Alas, I don't listen to music at live levels that much anymore, but it is nice to have an amp that can when the need calls.
        
        I might have a different opinion of both the Bryston and Parasound if I tried them with the 2.5's as there is no way the BGW is in the same league or maybe it is.
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
Because Marantz 9..... - kootenay 19:32:51 02/18/12 (13)
sounds good with them. Perhaps it has to do with an easy load for them to handle at 101dB on 8 ohms.

If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
- RE: Because Marantz 9..... - Medium Jim 19:59:40 02/18/12 (12)
  Koot:
  
  It did cross my mind, but I think I was trying to re-live my youth more than the handling propencities of the Klipsch's. The irony of it all is that while doing some guitar related business, I happened upon a 1974 BGW 500D power amp. This particular model was used in about 1000 movie theaters to get the walls rattling and shaking for the movie Earthquake.
  
  It is rated at 250wpc at 8ohm's and over 400 in 4ohm. I will audition it tomorrow and see if it is stark as the Bryston 4B sst was with my 1.6's.
  
  The early BGW amps were well made and designed, not like the crap that followed and was the main stay of just about every Disco out there in the mid/late 70's and 80's.
  
  I don't think it will replace the Marantz 9's as they drive the 2.5's just fine, thank you.
  
  Jim
  Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
  - RE: Because Marantz 9..... - tinnitusintx 22:35:58 02/18/12 (11)
    "The early BGW amps were well made and designed, not like the crap that followed and was the main stay of just about every Disco out there in the mid/late 70's and 80's."
    
    Hey, it sounds like you're describing my Soundcraftsmen MA5002....same power numbers too.
    - RE: Because Marantz 9..... - Medium Jim 22:44:05 02/18/12 (10)
      What caught my eye was the dampening factor of 200, talk about a negative feedback loop. The amp was a toss in on a couple of guitars so it was a no brainer. Irony, the Klipsch forum had a thread about this model and indicated it has a noisy soundfloor and is a bit harsh sounding....
      
      Jim
      Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
      - RE: Because Marantz 9..... - pictureguy 00:15:12 02/19/12 (9)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Because Marantz 9..... posted by Medium Jim on February 18, 2012 at 22:44:05
        
        It would seem that a super hi-sensitivity speaker may not be the best use of a hi-power amp.
        You'll never get it out of the noise floor over 1 watt or so. With unlimited headroom, of course!
        Too much is never enough
        
        RE: Because Marantz 9..... - Medium Jim 06:46:43 02/19/12 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Because Marantz 9..... posted by pictureguy on February 19, 2012 at 00:15:12
        
        Pictureguy:
        
        I'm not so sure about that, as my VOTT A7's were over 100db and I drove them with some hi powered stuff with no complaints....
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
        
        RE: Because Marantz 9..... - pictureguy 09:30:33 02/19/12 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Because Marantz 9..... posted by Medium Jim on February 19, 2012 at 06:46:43
        
        Maybe it is a case of
        'If you don't get the first watt right'........
        Which of course 'depends' on the amp / speaker combo and compatibility.
        
        All I'm thinking is that if an amp has a reputation (justified?) for not being right at low power, 101db sensitive speakers is that last thing it needs.
        Too much is never enough
        
        RE: Because Marantz 9..... - Medium Jim 09:44:18 02/19/12 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Because Marantz 9..... posted by pictureguy on February 19, 2012 at 09:30:33
        
        Pictureguy:
        
        Not always the case. My friend, whom I bought my model 9's from is using a pair of vintage model 9's to drive his Avantgarde Trio's which are 107db efficient and it is truly an amazing system.
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
        
        Just to titillate you even more... - kootenay 10:09:18 02/19/12 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Because Marantz 9..... posted by Medium Jim on February 19, 2012 at 09:44:18
        
        As far as I'm concerned these speakers sounded excellent and sweet when they were driven by the Marantz 9., much better than the Conrad Johnson Premier 140 tube amp.
        
        If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
        (Proverb)
        
        RE: Just to titillate you even more... - acroy 08:17:12 02/21/12 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Just to titillate you even more... posted by kootenay on February 19, 2012 at 10:09:18
        
        I am just old enough to have read the initial review in Stereo Review of those monster JBL's - they are on my short list to buy a pair if I ever get room and extra $$'s. mmmmm.
        
        The JBL 250 Ti are getting.... - kootenay 14:02:28 02/21/12 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Just to titillate you even more... posted by acroy on February 21, 2012 at 08:17:12
        
        scarcer and scarcer these days, perhaps because the owners don't want to part with them. I don't blame them either.
        
        If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
        (Proverb)
        
        RE: Just to titillate you even more... - Medium Jim 12:53:17 02/19/12 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Just to titillate you even more... posted by kootenay on February 19, 2012 at 10:09:18
        
        LOL
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
        
        On Hold - Medium Jim 17:04:33 02/20/12 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Just to titillate you even more... posted by Medium Jim on February 19, 2012 at 12:53:17
        
        I finally moved the toss in the deal, BGW amp to try it out, hence a problem, the inputs are 1/4 so I will need to get a pair of 1/4 to RCA converters to try it out.
        
        Not to worry, the 9's sound pretty darn fine, 1st watt to the last!
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
        
        BGW is a nice sounding amp, but,.... - kootenay 13:59:51 02/21/12 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: On Hold posted by Medium Jim on February 20, 2012 at 17:04:33
        
        It wasn't as sweet sounding as the Philips Laboratories AH 578 power amp during my comparison.
        
        If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
        (Proverb)
        
        Edits: 02/21/12
No better way - E-Stat 13:32:56 02/18/12 (0)
to better appreciate what you've already got...
as mdl said. there's nothing to forgive - wazoo 09:00:57 02/18/12 (3)
My son loves the pair of Heresy IIs that I gave him. I'd like to have my Belles back - had instant seller's remorse, but they were just too large for our living room. If I had the cave then, I may not be a 3.7 owner right now - funny how things work out, isn't it? Anyway, there's no reason anyone should hurl verbal stones at you for desiring the Cornwalls. If you want a pair of Legacy Kilpsch speakers, go for it! I loved the Belles (and I didn't need subs).
- RE: as mdl said. there's nothing to forgive - Medium Jim 09:24:17 02/18/12 (2)
  You guys are making this difficult. The Cornwall's are from the 60's and I suspect will need the x/o's rebuilt or replaced. The drivers were very well built back then. A good friend of mine had a pair of La Scala's and they were fine speakers. The Cornwall's that I've listened to can be very good as well.
  
  Damn....
  
  Jim
  Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
  - RE: as mdl said. there's nothing to forgive - tinnitusintx 10:49:21 02/18/12 (1)
    My speaker repair tech just hot rodded a set of Cornwalls for his main listening rig and they do sound very nice....but good Lord are they huge. I can see them being very intrusive and cumbersome when not in use if you don't have a surplus of room (of course, I should be one to talk....I have Polk SDA-1c, JBL L100t3s, ADS 1290/2's, Vandersteen 2ci's, Cerwin Vega D-8E's [behemoths], Electro Voice Interface C's, KLH 23's, Dynaco 25's, Paradigm 5se, DCM CX-27, Polk Monitor 10A....all NOT in use).
    
    I like RickyM's suggestion and I'm REALLY, REALLY hoping hardwood frames and xover mods for my MMGs will make them so spectacular I'll be able to sell of a good number of those monkey coffins in my collection with zero remorse (but not the EV's!).
    
    Good luck with your decision. They'd be a nice addition to your collection, no doubt.
    - RE: as mdl said. there's nothing to forgive - RickeyM 11:11:00 02/18/12 (0)
      FWIW, I don't think anyone who went with wood frames regretted it.
RE: Forgive me, I want to... - mdl 08:46:58 02/18/12 (16)
What is there to forgive? Having one pair of speakers is like saying you will only eat potatoes the rest of your life.

I have had various Klipsch heritage speakers, and think they are great. I actually plan to go back to Klipschorns at some point. With the right amp and correct room loading, they can be incredibly good, and a very good alternative to planars. Pair the Cornwalls up with an old HK 430 (I have a couple I picked up for 80 bucks) and enjoy.
- RE: Forgive me, I want to... - Medium Jim 09:05:42 02/18/12 (15)
  See, that's the problem, I already have several pairs of speakers besides the Maggies'. I have a pair of JBL L100A's, a nice pair of Dynaco A150's (basically A25's), a pair of old Altec/University's, as well as a pair of Energy 22 Reference Connoisseur Speakers that are very tasty (need's a new X/O in one of them).
  
  The Dynaco's are nice speakers and akin to say an AR2, the JBL's are probably the best selling speakers of all time, the Altec/Uni's are decent and the Energy's were the reference monitors for the Canadian Broadcasting Service back in the day.
  
  These are all for my 2nd or party system. I was thinking about the Klipsch's for the my main system, but I physically don't have the room and to store them and bring them in would be impractical as they weigh over 100lb each.
  
  It bothers me that I'm even thinking about this as I really love my 2.5's...Heck, I need to hook up the JBL's and forget about it....
  
  Jim
  Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
  - RE: Forgive me, I want to... - MaggieLover 20:25:53 02/23/12 (10)
    I remember the Dynaco A150. If I recall it was an A25 on steroids. Brings back memories. The first "real" stereo system I ever heard belonged to a female friend of mine in around 1973. It consisted of a pair of A25's, A Pioneer PL12D manual, single play, belt driven turntable, and a mid-range Kenwood receiver. It knocked my socks off and the die was cast. Within a month or so I bought a pair of Large Advents in wood finish, the same PL12D table and a Marantz 2250 receiver. Although almost 40 years later my system and listening room are eons above that system, the initial experience of owning my first decent system still stays with me.
    
    Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
    
    Mark
    
    Edits: 02/23/12 02/23/12
    - RE: Forgive me, I want to... - Medium Jim 21:14:24 02/23/12 (9)
      MaggieLover:
      
      I too remember my 1st real system, I traded and saved my way up to it. It consisted of a phase linear 700 power amp, a phase linear 2000 pre, a thorens tt with a shure cartridge and a pair of Altec A7's. Even then, I bought used.
      
      I had that system for about 10 years and sold it all when I moved into an apartment. I still have fond memories of it and part of me is trying to relive the past. As you say, my main system is light years better, but there still is that 1st love thing.
      
      I bought the Dynaco A150's on eBay as being A25's and to go with my Dynaco ST-70. They're wonderful speakers, very much like AR's. I think I will hook them up again as they really do sound good with the Dynaco ST-70.
      
      Jim
      Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
      - RE: Forgive me, I want to... - MaggieLover 21:24:40 02/23/12 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by Medium Jim on February 23, 2012 at 21:14:24
        
        Are the surrounds still intact after all these years? I hope they work. BTW I later got a Thorens myself. It was a TD160 with an integrated arm. I still have it, although I haven't used it in years. Which one did you have? I currently spin LPs on my 1984 AR table with a Linn arm.
        
        Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
        
        Mark
        
        Edits: 02/23/12
        
        RE: Forgive me, I want to... - Medium Jim 21:36:08 02/23/12 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by MaggieLover on February 23, 2012 at 21:24:40
        
        MaggieLover:
        
        To be honest, I don't recall the model of the Thoren's. Yes, the surrounds on the A150's are fine. The SEA's drivers usually don't have issues.
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
        
        RE: Forgive me, I want to... - MaggieLover 21:45:09 02/23/12 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by Medium Jim on February 23, 2012 at 21:36:08
        
        The foam surrounds on the original Large Advent generally started to disintegrate after 15 years or so. I had already sold mine, but the surrounds on my brother's pair literally felt apart. I understood that this was the fate of all Advents using this surround material. It was just a question of time.
        
        Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
        
        Mark
        
        Edits: 02/23/12
        
        RE: Forgive me, I want to... - Medium Jim 07:37:44 02/24/12 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by MaggieLover on February 23, 2012 at 21:45:09
        
        I suppose on Advent's it is a problem, not so with Dynaco (SEA's) drivers.
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
        
        RE: Forgive me, I want to... - MaggieLover 07:43:59 02/24/12 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by Medium Jim on February 24, 2012 at 07:37:44
        
        So how do the A150's sound?
        Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
        
        Mark
        
        RE: Forgive me, I want to... - Medium Jim 08:01:50 02/24/12 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by MaggieLover on February 24, 2012 at 07:43:59
        
        Very open and natural and for their size have a nice soundstage. I would compare them to a pair of AR2's, with the AR's the better speaker overall.
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
        
        RE: Forgive me, I want to... - MaggieLover 08:06:29 02/24/12 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by Medium Jim on February 24, 2012 at 08:01:50
        
        I had heard AR3a's a number of times back in the day. They were just about the same size as the Large Advents, but were 3-ways as opposed to the Advents 2-way. My memories are that they were wonderful, but I have no idea how they would stand up today.
        Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
        
        Mark
        
        Edits: 02/24/12
        
        RE: Forgive me, I want to... - Medium Jim 15:52:02 02/24/12 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by MaggieLover on February 24, 2012 at 08:06:29
        
        I hooked up the Dynaco A150's to the Dynaco ST-70 and without a sub. Other sources, A modified Bottlehead Foreplay II Preamp, and a Rotel RCD-1072 CDP.
        
        They sounded good, but not stellar, lacked bass extension and the soundfield was okay, you definitely know where the speakers are, too much stereo effect and not much in the middle.
        
        I'm sure that better placement would have extended the bass and expanded the soundfield. A pair of subs would have also been of benefit to create weight and energy.
        
        Maybe I will pull out the JBL's and hook them up for grins in the near future, but I doubt that they will come close to the Magnepan's for shear largeness of the soundstage, detail, and finesse.
        
        My Altec A7's may have been the most dynamic speaker I've ever owned, yet they too had finesse and a wonderful soundstage. 2nd would be my old JBL 4320's, again very dynamic but also had great detail and finesse.
        
        The reason I considered the Klipsch Cornwall's (and I shouldn't have been so cheap and bid more), was that a good friend of mine had a pair of Klipsch Belle's ( believe that's what model he had) and they too caught me by surprise, as did the Magnepan's the first time I heard them.
        
        I agree with e-Stat that is better to appreciate what you already have, and I do. Maybe, it's like the guitar side of me, there's a better Les Paul or Stratocaster out there, when you already have it!
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
        
        RE: Forgive me, I want to... - Medium Jim 08:31:03 02/24/12 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Forgive me, I want to... posted by MaggieLover on February 24, 2012 at 08:06:29
        
        A speaker that reproduces sound correctly will usually sound good no matter when it was made....
        
        Jim
        Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
  - I second RickeyM's suggestion. nt - andyr 14:55:22 02/18/12 (2)
    .
    - RE: I second RickeyM's suggestion. nt - Medium Jim 15:21:54 02/18/12 (1)
      Sorry guy, but I like my Maggie's just as they are. I didn't get the Cornwall's, but I did pick up a BGW 500D amp. It is from the 70's and is built like a tank. BGW won a contract sometime in the early 70's to replace the Crown 500 amps in 1000 movie theaters if my memory serves me well. The model was the 750D.
      
      I have too much to get done today to try it out.
      
      Jim
      Music is the best thing you can do legally that doesn't require a medical prescription!
      - I'll repeat RickeyM's suggestion. ... - andyr 15:27:14 02/18/12 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I second RickeyM's suggestion. nt posted by Medium Jim on February 18, 2012 at 15:21:54
        
        " Build some wood frames for the 2.5's. The resulting increase in SQ will make you want to listen to your entire music collection all over again. This will take your mind off the Cornwalls ." :-))
        I have no interest in listening to any other speakers apart from my active Frankenpans (think T-IVas with only one bass panel). But that's because they sound so much better than the IIIas I had - with all their mods - and, I daresay, better than stock 3.6s ... and maybe even 3.7s.
        Regards,
        Andy
        
        Edits: 02/18/12
  - RE: Forgive me, I want to... - RickeyM 09:40:24 02/18/12 (0)
    Build some wood frames for the 2.5's. The resulting increase in SQ will make you want to listen to your entire music collection all over again. This will take your mind off the Cornwall's.

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