Planar Speaker Asylum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share you ideas and experiences.

Planar Speaker Asylum

RE: brain storming with Magnepan

69.115.248.163

In Reply to: RE: brain storming with Magnepan posted by wendell diller on May 29, 2009 at 13:45:11

While all these suggestions are interesting, probably few, or perhaps none, will ever be implemented or even given a second thought by Magnepan.

Most of the maggie purchasers out there have never heard of this site, and have no desire to modify, tweak, or otherwise change their stock speakers in any way. They will not be willing to pay for more expensive crossovers or hardwood frames or stands, and for that matter, Magnepan will never offer any of these as options simply because it implies the speakers are not as good without them.

Adding hardwood frames and better stands and xovers would probably double the price of some models and price them out of the market they are in. And...no matter what changes magnepan implements, some people on this site will say thy haven't gone far enough. or the changes were not as good as they should be, will and still perform their own mods and tweaks.

Magnepan has a successful business and excellent, if not perfect, products. It would be naive for anyone to expect them to to modify a successful line to meet the desires of a small speciallist group of owners. This company before anything else is a profit motivated business, they are not hobbiests.

Maggies, because you can never be too thin!

Mark

Follow Ups:

read a basic marketing book - mbnx01 18:25:36 05/31/09 (8)
And pay particular attention to the chapter on 'product life cycles'. You'll find something very interesting happens at the end of the product life cycle. SALES GO DOWN.
Just because they can't mass-produce custom-made 'gunned' speakers with exquisite hardwood frames doesn't mean they can't EVER improve their speakers.
This is all silly in a way. NONE OF US knows what is going on at Magnepan. Are their sales going up? Down? Holding steady? Do they have a ton of money in the bank, or are they broke? We have exactly zero information about what their sales, financials, etc, are.
If Wendall is interested in finding out what people want, I say let's tell him. This 'never mind, go back to what you were doing' attitude makes no sense to me.

Edits: 05/31/09
- your point begs the question - wazoo 21:27:01 05/31/09 (6)
  Who gets to say when a product's life cycle has run its course? There's also the old axiom, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The 'New and Improved' mentality that pervades so many product lines is getting a bit old (after a dozen iterations of this comment, one begins to wonder how bad the old product was - or the current one for that matter, because the future will most certainly bring more 'New and Improved'), and in some ways that tag line appeals to the same crowd that believes $19.99 is less that $20.00 (Okay, it is less by one cent, but what's a friggin' penny?).
  I think you're missing the point. For 99.9% of their customers, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a pair of Maggies as they were built. I seriously doubt we are representative of the majority (or more than miniscule minority). Even among the members of this forum who have modified MMGs, I don't know anyone else who has made a pair of hybrids. So, I'm an exception among the exceptions, but I wouldn't want them any other way. I'm grateful that MMGs are dirt cheap and I'd like to see them stay that way.
  I agree that Magnepan uses some cheezy components in their XOs, but that's not exactly unusual. Regardless of that fact, stock Maggies are quite good speakers. In fact, it's their basic goodness that leads most of us to tweak them - they are worthy of the effort. If Magnepan were to alter their XOs, would it be possible for them to do it such that everyone would be pleased with them? I don't think so.
  The fact is that some people just like to tinker. I confess that I'm such an individual. For me, it's part of the fun of this hobby. I and others with a similar inclination will always be able to find something to change. As that applies to Maggies, there is simply no way Magnepan could mass produce hardwood frames and doing such a thing for a 'select' line would not only be expensive for them, it could be very harmful to the sales of their 'standard' line.
  We know something about Magnepan's financial status. They aren't in Washington begging for money. They don't appear to be facing bankruptcy. I believe what Wendell said about their running a lean business and I think it's the only way they have managed to survive this long; it's the only way they will continue to survive.
  I think we are telling Wendell what we want - we want Magnepan to stick with what works. That suggestion is not akin to our sticking our heads in the sand; it's an expression of our fear that monkeying with their product line would be a devastating mistake. It's also something of a facing of fact - we really are the lunatic fringe (even (hell, especially) you, Mr. Redwood).
  Long live Magnepan!
  
  "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
  
  Edits: 05/31/09 05/31/09
  - :-)) As the old saw goes "It takes one to know one"! :-)) nt - andyr 16:01:28 06/01/09 (1)
    .
    - guilty as charged ;-) [NT] - wazoo 20:39:01 06/01/09 (0)
      .
      
      "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
  - addendum: remember new coke? - wazoo 04:20:12 06/01/09 (3)
    That's an example of changing a perfectly good product (for no good reason) and facing bad consequences. If you're doing something right, don't change what you're doing. In my view, Magnepan is doing soemthing right. I agree that they should improve their QC efforts though.
    
    I replaced the Mini Mag Light in my toolkit with the 'new and improved' LED version until I realized how much I hated it. The old Mag Light is back in service and I gave the LED version to someone else (who is young and seemed to like it better). Why do I prefer the old one? The LED version is actually too bright and does not permit focusing of the beam. It may be new, but I don't think it's improved. I'm glad they still sell the regular version.
    
    "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
    - RE: addendum: remember new coke? - Green Lantern 05:51:51 06/01/09 (2)
      I love Magnepan to death and all it represents, but aside from the MMG home trial program, the marketing side of the house could use a good shot in the arm (perhaps the 'quote-end quote' Wendell visit).
      And you really don't have to look far..
      -observing their website which shows a pair of 3.6's pushed up against a wall in a waaaay too small room
      -Also the 20.1's being model'd with someone who's dressed like she's from the old TV series 'fame'.
      Sure; keep cost down, but do it without being cheesy.
      I think the stagnation in presenting 'new and improved' Maggie products has to do with Jim's retirement and the addition of their home theater line.
      I remember some of the best turntables to hit the streets were being churned out around '81,'82; only to be crushed by the new wave of CD players hitting the scene.
      The fact Magnepan is still standing is a testament to their business model. Businesses don't survive from customers, they survive from banks and apparently their bank has enough faith in them-so far.
      
      "You don't have to be faster than the lion....
      just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous
      
      Edits: 06/01/09 06/01/09
      - RE: addendum: remember new coke? - MaggieLover 07:34:14 06/01/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: addendum: remember new coke? posted by Green Lantern on June 01, 2009 at 05:51:51
        
        "-observing their website which shows a pair of 3.6's pushed up against a wall in a waaaay too small room "
        
        Hey GL,
        
        You and everyone else on this thread are correct IMHO. Almost all the changes suggested would be wonderful in a perfect world. Their web site and marketing strategies seems old. They don't accept email. Much of their line (except perhapss the 20.1s) is marketed as value for price to an audience with some money to spend but who are generally not hobbyiests or perfectionists.
        
        If Magnapan told their potential customer base that their speakers would sound their best:
        
        * in a rooms of certain dimensions,
        * with the speakers well away from rear and side walls,
        * with the addition of room treatments,
        * with larger glass, concrete or tile surfaces covered,
        * with the listening postion well away from room bounderies,
        * with the listener sitting dead center between the panels,
        * with large amounts of very clean high current power,
        * and with top quality cd playeres and preamps,
        
        then I suspect their sales would plummet.
        
        There are proabaly many tens of thousands (or more) maggies owners living blissfully in ignorance of the truths we believe in. Many of their setups might well appall us and make us wonder why they even bought maggies in the first place. They in turn would probably think most of us were a bunch of anal retentive geeks with too much time on our hands.
        
        This is a business first. They design and build what they think they can sell in a specific market segment, and price the speaker based on the costs of parts and labor and the profit they want to make. They market it to sell the most product they can.
        
        Unlike the maufacturers of box speakers who have to compete with perhaps hundreds of brands of similar looking and often similar sounding speakers, Magnepan has relatively little competition in the panel speaker market, and almost none at the various price points of their models. As a result there is little incentive to redesign their line often. R&D is time consuming and expensive. It doesn't mean Magnepan is not interested in production quality or developing improvements, but staying in business, selling product and making a profit is their primary goal.
        
        Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
        
        Mark
        
        not sure if - Green Lantern 12:48:24 06/01/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: addendum: remember new coke? posted by MaggieLover on June 01, 2009 at 07:34:14
        
        the photo of the 3.6's was a 'conscience' decision for a universal placement example made to appeal to a mass market.
        I mean why not use the MMG's instead?
        It's almost an insult to the larger Maggie users.
        Oh well; it is what it is..
        Good points though; thanks for the reply.
        
        "You don't have to be faster than the lion....
        just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous
        
        Edits: 06/01/09
- I agree... - stevenk 19:14:30 05/31/09 (0)
  Mr. Diller was kind enough to ask us what's on our mind. He's obviously interested to know what Maggie users are thinking about.
  
  Why try to guess what his answers will be?
RE: brain storming with Magnepan - Travis 15:39:12 05/31/09 (3)
Yeah, you're right. They should never change anything because that would admit not being perfect before.

Hurumph.

"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
- RE: brain storming with Magnepan - MaggieLover 22:25:09 05/31/09 (2)
  Travis I'm not saying that no one should ever change anything. What I am saying is any changes Magnepan will make are generally going to be cost effective smaller steps to avoid alienationg their customer base, and not the major design changes that many here would like to see.
  
  Further, any changes they do make will be critized as not good enough by some segment of this forum. In any case the tweaking and modding will continue.
  
  Developing options like better xovers, frames and stands makes sense, and would be a cost effective business decision, only if they can sell enough of them. I don't believe they could push the superiority of any options in their marketing without implying that their products are not as good without them. Options could confuse their customer base who are generally not as savvy as many on this board.
  
  While options may work with cars and perhaps computers, when it comes to most other products most consumers don't want to have to make too many decisions or shell out large amounts of extra cash for what superficially doesn't seem to provide extra value to them.
  
  My brother who is a college professor, and has a Phd in physics, knows full well my passion for good sound He's currently looking to purchase a pair of MG12's. He's 66 years old and couldn't care less about mods or tweaks. He heard the speakeres recently and liked them, He'll take them home, attach them to his 35 year old, 100 wpc, refurbished Marantz receiver, use an inexpensive cd player and 14 guage no name speaker wire, and just enjoy listening to music. He would never consider buying the 12s for an addtional $500 inorder to improve the sound that he already thinks is great. To him they are good enough as is. I suspect the overwhelming Magnepan customer base feels the same.
  
  Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
  
  Mark
  - amen brother - wazoo 04:39:50 06/01/09 (0)
    Your brother represents the overwhelming majority of Magnepan's customer base. We are but a flea on an elephant. Besides, tweakers will always find something to tweak - it's not just in the speakers; it's in us . I bet the majority of asylum members who own Maggies have never and will never subject them to any internal modifications. We who have are a minority even among the minority. Who is the happier?
    
    "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
  - RE: brain storming with Magnepan - esande 23:17:43 05/31/09 (0)
    > I suspect the overwhelming Magnepan customer base feels the same.
    
    I suspect you may have a point there. They offer a well differentiated product line at several price points that is uniformly well reviewed.
    
    I don't know if there are QC issues, I haven't seen any with the ones I own. If they're not right they have a fair warranty.
    
    The issues they do have aren't exactly unknown to this forum, although the manuals could better address placement and power requirements. I've not had any hesitations about recommending them.
    
    I'm sure they could be better out of the box with some "minor" parts changes, but why mess with success.
    
    I don't have any information about sales figures, and I'm not exactly sure what's being asked for here.
    
    I'd say if the company is turning a profit, don't mess with what works.

Post a Followup:

FAQ

Post a Message!

Forgot Password?

Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
	Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?) Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:

Message:	(Posts are subject to Content Rules)

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:	Automagically notify you when someone responds.

To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.