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In Reply to: RE: I'll take number 10,number 5,number 3,and number 1 of this list of musle cars. posted by Michael Samra on September 19, 2016 at 23:08:13
My old S2000 wouldn't lose by much in a 1/4 mile that was straight.
Put some turns in the race? I'll take the S2000.
All that is preface to my FAVORITE of all the musclecars. Give me a first year Z-28 Camaro with the 302, 4speed. You might be able to get the 2x4bbls and 4 wheel disc brakes. I don't know that I've ever seen one with those options, though.
Good handling, especially for the time and plenty of get-up-and-go.
Too much is never enough
Follow Ups:
It's all I needed to see.The GTR with those mods he has is probably a 140k car minimum...The Stang has a 4500 dollar turbo kit.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Again,
Straightline 'Stang vs the GTR which I think is 4wd and HANDLES.
Put 'em on a road course, hire a pro and REPEAT.
And while the 'Stang had 'only' a 4500$ turbo kit, it also had (repeat HAD) a good set of tires and all those wacky interior lights. I'd be curious about tht OTD price on the 'stang. BTW, I'm on record with my friends as saying the V8 Mustang is a goner. Even the flat plane crank can't save it from a supertuned V6 of maybe 500hp. That's gotta help balance and track performance.
Too much is never enough
But the Mustang cost a mere fraction of that GTR and it pounded its ass.No excuses.That Mustang wasn't a GT,it was a standard V6 3.7L and not even an Ecoboost..That is sinful what it did to that supercar GTR.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Too bad my trip to ANYWHERE has actual turns.
When in the mountains zipping over to Palm Springs, via what's called the 'Palms to Pines Highway', I'd take handling over sheer acceleration.
Even something like the Miata or it's FIAT CLONE, the new 124 would provide plenty of handling fun and would be priced more at the Mustang than the GTR end of the spectrum.
And it is kind of an aside, but at the start of the video, I am certain I heard the guy say something about 20 pounds Boost. That's a LOT of boost and applied regularly will REALLY shorten engine life. I didn't hear the popping of a waste gate in the video, either. Add Nitrous? WOW! Apply that too often and you'll find out if your cooling system is OK. Any weak link there will be ruthlessly exposed.
Sure, in a rolling start, it looks like the 'Stang has the edge. It really IS making a lot of power.
Too much is never enough
This says otherwise..Not only that,you can upgrade Mustangs and Camaros very easily because of parts availability.. This is 2014 and the new Camaro is head and shoulders above this one.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
It's more or less a Holden Commodore SS underneath a new 2 door body.
Certainly a pretty good handling sedan and always flogged the ancient live axle Fords - Though here, all our RWD Fords had IRS for the last decade or more ......
Cheers,
John K
Yes
There is a lot of stuff we have gotten from Ford and GM of Australia..The Pontiac G8 we brought to the US from Australia..I think your regulations are more relaxed than ours which is why we had to modify the cars for our safety codes in the states
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Back in 2005 - 2006 or so this Holden Monaro was exported to the US as the Pontiac GTO. It didn't sell very well for the reasons above.
Then came the try with the G8 4 door sedan.
Now GM have more or less shut up shop in Australia, but saved part of the design and test team for US/rest of world collaborations.
Cheers,
John K
It had nothing to do with the quality of product..The car came over when we were going thru a time where two cars were losing their flair.
Notice our cars were about four to six years behind you in the styling department because if you look at our current models,they look a lot like that Holden you posted especially with the headlights.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Yes, the very BEST of the Americn cars DO handle very good, indeed.
YOu might add a few models of the Cadillac to the list as well.
But to get to those handling potentials, you are pretty much at the 'top of the line' for each model
That being said, American cars MOSTLY handle better than a couple decades ago. I don't know on a model-by-model basis, but I'm certain a few 'boats' still remain.
After haing owned several Ford 'automobiles' over the years, I'll avoid them in the future.
And I owned a variety. Ford Ranger? Taurus? F-150? ALL had maintenance issues. And it is NOT the same as making a bad car, but the Dealerships poor attitude didn't help.
Too much is never enough
Now you get where I'm coming from. We have cars that handle very well along with kicking ass in straight line acceleration. To top it off,you are supporting the good old USA..If people are proud of their country and its people,they should be proud to own the products it builds.Just saying.
Now,you mentioned about maintenance issues with the F-150 or Tauruses,unless you bought them new,you have no idea how they were treated when you got them.Today cars are much improved from what they were in the 1990s.AAMOF,most of the Camrys and Ford Fusions,and Chevy Malibus,all you the same suppliers in many cases..I know this from teaching in the industry.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 09/21/16
All my Ford Junk was bought new.
Ranger? Rear main seal. RABS brake valve. Heater Core. and more normal stuff like oil changes and shocks. Shocks wer GONE at about 50k miles. Way too soon, IMO. Fix it guys NEVER cleaned up teh HUGE under-car mess. When it needed a fuel pump, I dropped it off at the dealer. Picked up a day or so later and was going to DisneyLand. Filled with gas and it started spilling OUT THE TOP of the tank where it hadn't been secured. I left the car at the gas station for the FORD dealer who certainly wanted me to DRIVE IT BACK to them. right.
Taurus? Used oil like I owned stock in Mobil. 'normal' per dealer. Assorted small gripes which were NEVER properly addressed by the dealer unless I leaned on 'em.
F-150? head Gasket of the 4.6 blew. Crack around the rear window Frame. (also reported by a friend who owned and sold HIS F-150 near the same time. Poor assembly from Factory. The muffler almost fell off and I had a rattle. FIXED IN THE DEALERSHIPS DRIVEWAY. When I had the headgasket fixed, that needed a 2nd trip to fix the fix also. And AGAIN in the driveway.
Nope, no more Ford for ME!
And yes, I'm familiar with suppliers being much the same. Look at the Takata Airbag 'thing'. And how many manufacturers bought from those guys? Same goes for LOTS of parts / electronics and even down to bulbs / lamps.
I've been thru ISO Audits and audits from the car manufacturers looking to buy electronic parts from my company. I've even had quality classes taught using Ford Materials. It's a joke, as far as I'm concerned. TQM/ Six Sigma? all the rest? sure.
I might add that FEW cars are PURE anything anymore. well, maybe the Germans. But ANY Japnaese car built in the USA is both different in some respects from the Japanese Product, but uses different suppliers, too. Your USA made Honda Accord, might use japanese engines and Transmissions (Aisin). But USA plastic and stampings. Who KNOWS where the electronics comes from? EVERYWHERE, that's where.
In the Global Age we now suffer thru, your 'American' car might be 20% Asian, 20% European and balance 'Americas', include South America. That beautiful V6 Diesel that Dodge / Jeep is selling? Italian. And GM wanted it too. Your Toyota Tundra? Using a Cummins V8 Diesel these days. Only my brothers ANCIENT FJ uses a 3.0 HINO diesel and is ALL Japanese. Dodge Dart? Originally came with the FIAT Multi-Air engine which NOW finds its way into the FIAT 124, which is a MIATA clone.
'Flagship' models might be more under control of the parent company.
Too much is never enough
I find that German cars have some of the worst reliability of all brands.I work on BMWs at times and the parts are out of sight even on Ebay which is lower than dealer cost most of the time.
I know what you mean about cars being pure as we live in a different time.The biggest problems I have with foreign countries such as Asia is,they won't let us sell our products in their countries because of their protectionist trade laws. Asians love American products and we see it a lot with audio gear like Krell and McIntosh.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I find that German cars have some of the worst reliability of all brands.
is that the Porsche Boxster has been rated by JD Power from between four and five stars consistently for the past eight years.
Over the past four years, ours has only experienced mildly annoying things like conflicting warning messages and an occasional bump with the top mechanism.
Good enough for me for me!
True, but don't forget that CHINA pretty much SAVED Buick. For some reason Buick sells in China.
Don't ask me why, but they apparently DO..
I remember reading about the new generation of 6-> 9 speed automatics. The BMW version of the ZF 8-speed was a real problem.
Too much is never enough
Which again proves they love American brands..The new Continental was actually designed for the upscale Chinese market and it's a gorgeous car.It reminds me of a Bentley somewhat.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I saw the ads for the new Continental. Nice set of features and it DOES look nice.
Now let's see if it holds together between oil changes.With an ENTRY List of around 45Large, I'm sure they'll be stickering for 55 to 60 at dealers with a few 'upgrades' like the more powerful engine or even the Full-Tillt-Boogie 4wd version.
For the entry list? Man, you can get a LOT of car. I'm not current so I wouldn't know WHERE to start, but I'd shop aggressively for THAT kind of coin.
Just off the top, you can get a Nissan Maxima SR Midnite for about 41k with PLENTY of goodies and almot nothing off the standard list.
But even the Max isn't much over the road, being more a sedan than (sports) sedan.
Too much is never enough
Edits: 09/21/16 09/21/16
Cars are going to have more and more reliability problems in the future with all this new added electronics.It's too bad we can no longer buy a basic automobile with features you want.Of course if cars weren't full of electronics including the engine management and fuel system,I would out of a teaching job. LOL
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I wonder. MTBF for many electronic devices, say OPAMPS and most 'discrete' is VERY high indeed.
One of the BIG limits may actually be SOFTWARE which makes it all work and 'talk'. One bad line of code and you're screwed.
Stuff costs a bundle, too. I Hate those tire pressure monitor things they make you change when you get new tires. SKIP IT. I don't care and I maintain my tire pressures the old fashioned way. I look / measure and FILL with a tire pump.
The cost of all that stuff? I'm not sure it's all THAT bad. My car, the entry level of the Mazda6 comes very well equipped. Backup camera, USB plugs, a SD card slot to make the Navigation functional and an EPA of 38mpg. I've gotten 35+ on a RT to Palm Springs.
I think the REAL problem will be car RESTORERS and those who want to have a running (Just An Example) 2016 Nissan GTR. In 2066 when you can't get ANY original electronics.
Too much is never enough
were built / homologated.
There's a test report of both IIRC on-line some-where.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Even the NHRA, which was the sanctioning body for Drag Racing in the states, called the original Z28 @325hp, up from factory 290, in a process called 'factoring'.
Too much is never enough
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