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In Reply to: RE: I'm disheartened by your vitriol... posted by Gak! on April 26, 2015 at 18:58:06
You can be disheartened all you like, but the FACT is, the ones committing suicide are NOT the victims as they don't have to live with their act and replay it in their mind(s) over and over......
Since I have first hand knowledge of this behavior and you do not, I stand by my commentary.
I'm curious; Why there is no sorrow or pity in these articles for the men and women that get a front row seat to those that commit suicide and make a "modern art masterpiece" on the cow catcher?
Suicide is tragic enough WITHOUT bringing innocent people into the act. When the person committing the act brings unwitting bystanders into the act so they may have it burned into their minds for months or years, it takes selfishness to the ultimate end.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Follow Ups:
as it is for the police whose go out and pick up the pieces scattered over hundreds of feet of a child.
However I get great comfort knowing that "no one on the train was injured".
Not sure if you personally have been in the cab and had it happen. But I was at the old crossing in Redwood City, CA at 5th AVE in my newspaper van ....stopped at the crossing as the lights flashed and the gates were down...
15 year old kid tried to beat the train
25 feet away from me...
He became a cloud of red mist as I watched his body dissolve into many pieces.
Why not elevate your fucking choo-choo ?
How the hell would you presume to know what is not so tough, and what isn't for train guys?
Before the cops and the ambulance/herse get there; Who do you think goes back to find the person to see if:
1) The person is dead.
2) The person is injured, and if so render first aid until the paramedics arrive.
3) Assist the authorities in pulling the body out.
4) Call 911 to report your location and circumstance.
I have been involved in all kinds of grade crossing accidents, both directly as a trainman, and indirectly as a local chairman taking a phone call from a fellow member that just wants to talk.
As to why the trains are not elevated - PULLLEEEZZZZ !!!
You obviously have no idea what the cost is to build a bridge capable of sustaining the weight of a loaded coal, grain, crude oil, or taconite train.
Maybe you should ask; Why there isnt a bridge over the tracks capable of supporting the weight of a pedestrian and his bike?
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
you can build dirt embankments to elevate the tracks. They did this in San Carlos a few years ago. They made tunnels for traffic to go under the elevated portions so that street traffic was not impacted nor impaired.
As for grief stricken, sure it is hard to look at bodies, it is way tougher to pick them up especially if they are in pieces.
How do I kn ow?
I was in the military and in Morocco when the earthquake wiped out Agadir.
There were nearly 15,000 dead. Many kids and families died together. The US Gov sent a bunch of us there to clean up and keep order. Ever smelled 15,000 bodies after 2 days in the 110+ degree Moroccan heat. Ever seen things that are so unbearable to look at that you threw up in your gas mask before you could pull it off? Ever come upon a herd of cat sized rats eating a dead child?
We loaded dump trucks with the dead and took them to the beach where we had bulldozers dig a 20 foot deep ditch, dumped in the mangled and crushed dead, covered them with lime and filled in the ditches. It took many days.
That is how I know which is tougher.
Edits: 04/27/15
You're getting off topic. We were discussing train suicides, not Morrocan earthquakes and feeding rats.
Bridges, berms, tunnels and the like may be of some use for those that do not possess the mental acuity to stay off a train track, however, if a person decides to commit suicide in front of a train there is really nothing to stop them.
It is tragic when someone is killed or injured from a train collision as a result of equipment failure (brakes, steering), or plain old not paying attention. I have co workers that have hit everything from cars, semi trucks, pedestrians, cattle - you name it. It's all tragic.
So we are all supposed to feel sorry for these Asian kids that have it so Fu&@ing bad because they got a "B" on a physics exam?
Maybe these kids should go to the St. Judes Children's Hospital website and peruse that for a while. After they see a 8 year old kid with stage 4 cancer and a bald head desperately trying to see 9 years of age, maybe they won't feel so sorry for themselves.
Suicide at best is a premeditated act of selfishness, however, when these people choose to involve innocent people in there selfishness, it's criminal.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Your anger is completely understandable. Unless I'm mistaken, the railroads pretty much take the position that they have to cover their @sses, and assume the whole thing was the employees' fault on the train. Off they all go for the obligatory drug test, and pity the poor sap who smoked a doobie with his buddies on the weekend, even if he was deadheading at the time. And even if you're squeaky clean, your record is marred, not to mention your psyche.While you're not wrong about the selfishness, however, I think it might be more accurate to say that the impacts on others don't intrude on their awareness than to say they have no regard for them.
Some time ago, I had an exchange with an inmate about this same subject. Said inmate stated that he had always thought about the consequences to others when contemplating self destruction, and I told him that proved that he wasn't too far gone. I suspect that all a suicide sees is a massively potent means of instant (and hopefully painless) destruction. I think all they see is a train, and it never occurs to them that there are people on that train who will be severely traumatized by their actions. I just don't think it's on their radar.
FWIW, however, I'd observe that hardening your heart against those poor kids harms you far more than it does them. Doing so is a habit that's far too easy to fall into when you're repeatedly hurt by the actions of others, and once formed, it's a very difficult habit to break. I can attest that the consequences of not breaking it far exceed any price a person would want to pay.
Don't ask me how I know this.
Edits: 04/27/15
Todd;
Thank you for your reasoned response.
You obviously know a railroader, as you have the vernacular down.
You are correct in that the first order of business post accident is the drug and alcohol test. Next the tapes are downloaded, then you are given a few days off (trauma). The railroads used to hold this against you, however, it was ruled that they no longer can.
As far as hardening ones feelings toward the ones that commit suicide - it's to be expected.
As to them having a look a the St. Judes Children's Hospital website to gain some perspective and realizing just how fortunate they are - I'll stand by that comment any day all day.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Adios
Trench and tunnel...trench and tunnel...
This is a problem only where the trains are passing thru cities and I am not suggesting that rail lines across America be retrofitted with elevated rail beds.
Cal Train passes thru the heart of around 12 cities, a 50 mile stretch.
None of this addresses the need for medical intervention and mental health issues of those who wish to stand in the tracks.
However my thoughts here (along with whole communities of folk) is to remove (easy) access to those tracks.
There would still be the issue of access at the stations along the routes.
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