|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
184.167.88.29
I notice that there are a lot of cat lovers here. I love animals too, but I no longer enjoy making pets out of them and I've never liked sharing living spaces with them. IMO, a wall of separation and distance between humans and other animal species is best for the sovereignty, health, and well being of all parties involved. Any animal that sheds, shits, or pisses inside of my house (without cleaning up and/or flushing the toilet afterwards) is better off living outdoors, IMO.Specifically, I've always suspected that cats are definitely NOT man's best friend (dogs probably aren't either, for that matter). In fact, if we cannot consider our fellow humans to be our "best friends" it is likely that we are truly alone in this big wide universe. Sad but true.
In addition, long time cat owners seem to go insane eventually, as they become adept at *projecting* their own thoughts and feelings onto their pets so that they might comfort themselves imagining that cats are in fact these loving and affectionate creatures. Cats are beautiful creatures but I've never believed that they necessarily cared even one fig about their owners welfare. Rather, cats seem to be affectionate and loving because they crave the food, shelter and services that their slaves... er, I mean "owners", provide for them.
Scientific Research is finally beginning to confirm my longtime suspicions...
Edits: 10/20/14Follow Ups:
My landlord owns two cats; this is the first time I've ever lived with them in close proximity.
Evil, evil creatures.
Jim J.
You get OUT of any pet what you put INTO the pet with the limits of the animal factored in.
Kittens can be encouraged to 'fetch', for example. Most give it up when they realize YOU like it.
Pay attention to cats, become part of their lives and it is fairly rewarding. Not highly interactive, most of the time, but they are an OBSERVERS animal. Watching them pretend to sneak around cracks me up.
My oldest cat, Renfield, would meet me at the door at 0100 and want a good chase. We'd take turns chasing each other. He'd play 'tag'. He also would go into the neighbors house just for fun. Apparently he scared a pet bird to death. I had a talk with him.
The Cats I had a decade later would come in the house when the wife yelled at 'em in SPANISH. 'Your cats understand Spanish!' an astounded guest remarked. 'No', I replied, 'They just know she's pissed at em!'
When even the wife couldn't get 'em in, I'd go next door and borrow MAGIC, the huge, Black Lab. The cats would head for the door at Warp Speed while poor Magic just wanted to play.
BTW, my cats NEVER went NEAR my Panels. I raised them with various enrichment activities. Put 'em on the roof for a while. They explored and loved it. Taught 'em about ladders. SOME food enrichment, though one of 'em simply preferred Cat Food.
The 'Butcher Shop' cat would let the wife sing to her, and lay their kneeding and purring, eyes closed.
Too much is never enough
with household cats since the early 1980's.
I can certainly understand them not loving someone such as yourself (as you are depicted by your posts on the matter) as well as I can gather some of the cats (under scientific observation) doing likewise to the human subjects in the study.
The major flaw in the study is not dissecting (studying in detail) the humans involved.
Oh, the presumptuosness of an animal fetishizer! Most likely, you've lost or discarded your objectivity long ago.I know from my experience working at the animal shelters that animals don't necessarily trust or respect those who seek to "humanize" them. Animals seem to perceive this as a sign of weakness, and rightly so. I suspect that they can sense the disruptive vibes of fetishizers. I also suspect that they can sense the calm of those who truly mean them no harm. Dogs and cats that hiss, bark, or growl at others have a tendency to remain peaceful and calm when they meet me. They "know".
Anyway, if these so-called "animal lovers" really loved animals they would leave them alone as much as possible. "Humanizing" them, putting them on leashes, locking them up in houses, riding around on their backs, putting them in cages and aquariums - all in the name of "love".
Uh-huh...
Edits: 10/21/14 10/21/14
.
What's your role, euthanasia advocate?
In advance answer to you, who says I hate cats ...
Riiiiiigth!
No need to start making illogical accusations.The most logical conclusion, based upon what I've seen, is that many of those who claim to love animals really only love themselves. Compounding the problem, these so-called "animal lovers" are in fact psychotic narcissists and so are unable or unwilling to admit such to themselves, much less anyone else...
Edits: 10/20/14
.
We have both dogs and cats (3/2) and they now more than ever spend the vast majority outside. We love our pets but ten years here with them (and past pets) made us change our minds about indoor time. They do take a toll on the house, especially carpet. We need new carpet in terms of how it looks but decided not to buy any because it is still quite usable and doesn't stink. They'd just F- up the new carpet too is our thinking.
We have five acres and they can run around fairly freely. Since two are mostly Beagle they hunt and bark non-stop and can piss off some neighbors. Once every year or two I get a call from the animal control officer when they get loose together (they don't really hunt alone)
Even on the coldest winter nights the cats want out to hunt or just be cats. We do have several 0 degrees F nights and they are not bothered by it. We have never had an indoor cat box.
ET
I think the key part of the article is this:"But experiments he and colleagues have conducted at the university's Animal Behaviour Clinic suggest that cats, as a whole, do not love their owners back — at least not in the same way that dogs do."
Nobody expects cats to be like dogs, certainly not people who live with cats. I would agree that because of their independence and self-sufficiency a lot of people don't interact with their cats very often. That can tend to make cats a bit standoffish and nervous around strangers.
We have two Maine Coon cats - brothers from the same litter that are now a bit over six years old. When I'm on the road they provide a necessary and welcome companionship for my wife. They wait for her at the front door when she comes home and have elaborate rituals for how they interact with her and with me. Me never go by the cats without acknowledging their presence in some fashion, either verbally or with a quick ear scratch.
I agree that cats aren't the goofy, friendly eager to please species like dogs tend to be. I grew up with dogs and wasn't sure about how the cat thing would work out. You do need a lot of patience. You can train a dog to do something in a couple of days. To accustom your cat to a behavior your would prefer can take months.
I've never seen the point of comparing cats to dogs, the argument is nonsensical. As far as cats killing wildlife goes, there's a simply solution. Don't let your cat outdoors.
Edits: 10/20/14 10/20/14
Strikes me as a bit cruel and selfish, as animals are meant to be outdoors.
But go ahead, lock all your pets up inside so that more animal diseases can successfully mutate and be passed on to the human population. Overly intimate associations between humans and animals have, over time, created some of the worst infectious diseases we know of. What harm can another one or two infectious viral diseases do? How bad can another three or four types of parasitic infections be?
I'm not going for the bait. For someone who's stated that they know nothing about cats you seem to have have very strong opinions. :)
When did I state that I know nothing about cats? To the contrary, I used to volunteer at the local animal shelter so I know very well about the sad legacy of pet fetishism.
What part of "not going for the bait" did you not understand?
Asking you what you meant when you said "I know nothing about cats" has something to do with bating?
Is what you presented. Along with your feelings about cats and pets.Science presents us with conditional information. My qualifications, and work were in measuring us humans, and getting us to change how and what we do. And in assessing / critiquing what other management scientists come up with.
Science is a human activity and therefore inevitably subjective. It also requires value judgements a fact many will not acknowledge, which is a concern.Viz. Much of science is based in hypothesis testing and suffers from a high probability (beta) of type 2 error. This is manifest to me because the value of beta is very rarely reported in scientific journals.
In the science of audio this is a striking problem, let alone all the other problems noted in threads here at AA. Search on objectivity here.
The other problem in science is this witless attachment to using unbiassed estimators for variables we are interested in. This is almost never appropriate. Because errors of equal size above and below the mean are hardly ever of equal concern with real world issues.
Our barely at peace cats? If we have been away for a while they wait for us out the front of the block, together.
More often than not this isn't at morning or evening meal times, and they are at these time unusually desirous of company, pats and cuddles.
Our study of cats has a very high n, and a very low value for beta. :-).
And, we are not going to stop posting about our cats. :-)
I am fully aware of the impact cats have on wildlife. We carefully manage our cats and bring them in long before dusk, similar in the morning.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 10/20/14
Nobody suggested that you (or anyone else) should stop posting about cats here, Timbo.
As a matter of fact, I want everyone to post pictures of all their pets along with their addresses and other vital info. That way, the pet gestapo can do their job effectively.
:-)!
We all have agendas. You made yours clear. You don't think we should keep cats, ergo - then we'd stop posting about them.
An alternative view of the risks you mention? Many scientists think a lot of the Western world's health issues reside in our increasing isolation from infective vectors, yeasts .......
Caesarian births where the baby is not in contact with mum's pooh, and the decrease in breast feeding are two factors.
Let's do the freak-out again, eh?!!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
No need get all emotional on me, Timbo. There's no agenda here, I'm just trying to pass along some interesting info. I really didn't realize I'd be starting a cat fight...
BTW, I agree that there should have no qualms about dipping into ol' Mum's poo on occasion. It's the animal poo that concerns me.
various raptors, foxes, coyotes, rabbits, deer a bear or three and Schnitzle. All live on our property, I am pretty sure they all shit too. We move some of the shit from one place to another and some shit we grow what we eat in. Most of the wild shit just lays there and gives up nitrogen and potassium for our forest to thrive with
4 of us live here, a couple of others work here quite a bit, I have had events and parties and house concerts with nearly 200 folks at times who lollygagged on the ground or hiked or eaten here. Not one case of a shit caused illness. None of the various animals seem affected by any of the other species shit either. I have alot of land here and I imagine over the years that hundreds of tons of shit has been dropped all over it. Go back further and it may be a million pounds of all kinds of shit.
Then there are the dead, they die and lay there and become maggot ranches. Sometimes when they are too close to the structures I tie them to a quad and drag them off a mile or two. No epidemic of any kind has hit....
Man has lived with animals for as long as man has been on earth. Some bite, some sting, some will eat you and yet we still live with them and those who do will continue to do so, despite a totally off the wall concern from people like yourself. There is a word for it, I imagine you know what it is.
I dunno, I'd imagine that occasional contact with vermin is a different thing than living with it and breathing it in 24/7...
do you have feather pillows or down comforters? Every time you move on a regular mattress or move a down comforter or your head moves on a feather pillow you inhale the dead decayed bodies o as well as the shit of millions of mites. It just poofs up and into your nose. Your body is festooned with mites, and encrusted with mite shit. I spent 13 years + educating people about just this subject (as well as many other things).
Sweet dreams
Yes, and I know about the bugs, etc... Since I already have enough of my own bugs to deal with and get used to, I don't need or require any more.
Who'da thought of that.
the 'cogito, cogito' problem is alive and well!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
shit.
:-)!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Those of us who have nastier specimens have always known this. If the Red Cross had the blood this cat has taken from me over the years, there would be no shortage of hemo.
I'd tell you to go scratch your pussy, but that might prove to be even less hygienic than the kitty-litter box sitting inside your home.
Same for dogs. Great owners make great pets, and vice versa. This article you linked to was total crap, at least in my experience.
Our cats were universally loved by everyone who met them, even cat haters (believe it or not) due to our cats' incredibly friendly dispositions and strong desire for human attention and companionship. And bear in mind that the cats all had 24/7 food and access to outdoors. So they didn't 'need' us at all; they simply 'wanted' and 'enjoyed' our love and attention, just like normal ordinary people do with their friends and families.
Our best cat, Maggie, would always run to the door to greet us whenever we came home. She had food. She had a kitty door access to the great outdoors. Nope, she wanted US! So we would find her at the door, waiting for it to open, and then as we entered, she would rub against us, purring and obviously happy that we were home. She also came whenever she was called, and in the ultimate test of loyalty, would actually STOP EATING and come over if we called when she was having a meal! As with kids, it's all in how you train --and love-- them.
Yet the 'experts' cited in the article you linked say these things do NOT happen with cats. Sorry, buddy, but those experts are WRONG, period!
So fuck the 'experts'. Most experts are self-annointed assholes, anyway, looking to justify their own prejudices and those of whom are paying for their work. Such appeared to be the case here, with the article clearly starting with an anti-cat and pro-dog attitude. I love dogs, too. No reason to take sides on that. Both are great additions to any family, especially one with children.
Cats, pets and the like are similar to kids and computers: garbage in, garbage out. Selfish folks who put themselves first and their pets (and kids) last, should expect a dismal outcome and quit their whining when it happens. You reap what you sow......
The breeding experiments that humans have foisted upon animals reflects the degree of ruthless self indulgence that humans are capable of, that's for sure. These animals would have been much better off if we had left them alone, as much as possible. Instead, we continue to create circus freaks for amusement and utilitarian purposes, which might be considered the moral equivalent of slavery. Continuing with these traditional ways only extends the pain.
Who or what ever made us think we had the right to do all of this? The Bible? The Koran?
"Animal lovers", indeed...
You really do need to lighten up.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I'll add that the bad rep foisted on Pit Bulls is really due to bad owners. The Cognoscenti are quick to rate Pit Bulls as among the nicest, gentlest animals on the planet when properly cared for.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
.... but felt the post was already getting too long. But I agree, pit bull terriers are wonderfully loving animals when raised that way. Again, you reap what you sow.....
you do
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Hmmmmmmm.....
What a load of BULLSH!T.
Mind you I'm biased, but researchers are paid to get results that are publishable & profitable to those that foot the bill. What many researchers and scientists miss in such research is the immeasurable. Much like in the audio hobby I should add. What the companionship of a domestic animal provides
in its relationship with a human is immeasurable.
You don't care for domestic animals and you found research to support your stance. Congratulations! There be TONS of research published to the contrary that is just as viable or unviable in supporting one's POV.
Be prepared for more cat posts!!!!!
May slip a few dogs in too, as available.
And a turtle or two...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
No-oo-oo, you don't say?
This pet fetishism has got to stop.
around here and now accept Frank's condition as a peccadillo...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Shoe-fetish kitty! How adorable (just don't lick my face immediately afterwards, please.)
The cat I mean (not you.) ;-)
You can see the evil, manipulative intent in their eyes! :)
rlindsa
The real problem is, we can't see what's in their minds at all. We just try to convince ourselves that we can.
While dogs on the other hand....
rlindsa
Edits: 10/20/14
.
phooey!
That mankind has eliminated enough bird habitat to make this a problem, is far TRUER.
BS. They give far more affection than grief IMO. Ever live with a woman with PMS?
Did someone say or imply that cats were worse than women?
I've already been turned into a cat loving zombie by my cat. I'd tell you more, but he's calling me for his mid-day feeding. Must obey, must obey.....
rlindsa
Edits: 10/20/14
.
Reeeeee-oooww-rrrrr!!!
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: