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In Reply to: RE: New CA college sex law, "Yes means yes!" posted by tinear on September 29, 2014 at 07:53:33
Snippet: “However, if Student A asks Student B out on a date and Student B is not interested, this may be annoying, but it’s not harassment if the behavior is not repeated.”
Get it? If a young man gets turned down for a date and has the temerity to ask a second time he’s guilty of sexual harassment. In my day that was called perseverance. Whatever happened to the noble maxim: “If at first you don’t succeed try, try again”?
An old friend of mine who has been married for 33 years to the same woman was turned down the first three times he asked her out for a date. Had this policy prevented him from asking again and again the world would be without one less successful marriage and the five wonderful children that marriage has produced.
Follow Ups:
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Well, I guess you could say those old-fashioned women had *integrity*. Either you became a whore, or you remained poor.Nobody wants to be poor.
Edits: 09/29/14
Does the CA statue say you can't ask someone for a date again, if turned down the first time?
rlindsa
(nt)
...if I'm not mistaken, at least in the workplace, it is not sexual harassment unless she asks you to stop and then you persist.
In sales, the customer usually says no 5 times before they say yes. Only the top 10% of sales people ask the 6th time.
This is merely the pendulum swinging a little too far the other way since rape is so common in our society - 1 out of every 5 women have experienced sexual assault.
Just look at college campuses and the military. Most sexual assault goes unreported because there are no consequences for the perpetrator and there may be a stigma for the victim.
Some even blame the victim.
"1 out of every 5 women have experienced sexual assault."
Where? The U.S.? College campuses? Please cite hard evidence to back up your claim. If this bogus statistic were even close to being accurate then why haven't feminists and the media been alerting us to this egregious outrage for years? This would appear to be a huge dereliction of duty on their part.
Though I suppose one can get close to 20% if one is allowed to define "sexual assault" as broadly as one wishes: winking? whistling?
Look out! There’s a would-be rapist straight ahead, crouching behind those azaleas!
...Reggie where have you been?
This was probably not reported on Faux News or Murdoch's WSJ.
Here's the story - read the whole report.
That's the survey I thought you would cite. Did you read it?
Snippet: "The survey was anonymous and took about 15 minutes to complete. (Participants received a $10 Amazon.com certificate for participating.)
"So, first of all, it’s important to remember that this is a single survey, based on the experiences of students at two universities. As the researchers acknowledged, these results clearly can be generalized to those two large four-year universities, but not necessarily elsewhere. Moreover, the response rate was relatively low:
“Another limitation of the CSA study, inherent with Web-based survey, is that the response rates were relatively low.... the report said “sexual battery” could have included “sexual touching,” such as forced kissing or fondling."
This is poor research. Psychologist Steven Pinker notes, “Junk statistics from advocacy groups are slung around and become common knowledge, such as the incredible factoid that one in four university students has been raped. (The claim was based on a commodious definition of rape that the alleged victims themselves never accepted; it included, for example, any incident in which a woman consented to sex after having had too much to drink and regretted it afterward.)"
The National Crime Victimization Survey, which uses a narrower definition of rape, found that only 0.5% of women and 0.06% of men, age 12 or older, were raped in 1995. By 2010, these numbers had decreased to 0.2% of women and 0.01% of men.
To put that bogus 20% number in perspective: data from 2012 indicate that Detroit’s combined rate for the four violent felonies that make up the FBI’s violent-crime index — murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault — was 2 percent. The rape rate was 0.05 percent.
So despite the fact an alleged campus sexual-assault rate that is 400 times greater than Detroit’s, female applicants are beating down the doors of selective colleges in record numbers with their parents blessing. Curious, no?
...I also noticed a link where conservatives were trying to debunk it.
Guess that's where you got your nitpicking info, eh?
Any sexual assault or rape is too much.
It appears you don't you care about the health and safety of young women.
“...I also noticed a link where conservatives were trying to debunk it.”The survey you cite debunks itself. Moreover, using sloppy research that was gathered from two universities and extrapolating those dubious findings to include all colleges is absurd. If you were intellectually honest you would concede this point.
Steven Pinker will chuckle at the notion that you think he’s a conservative; likewise the National Crime Victimization Survey. Mr. Pinker is even more left-wing than you. But at least he recognizes erroneous statistics when he encounters them.
MKULLER: “It appears you don't you (sic) care about the health and safety of young women.”This is the sort of “logic” one often encounters on the left. In your distorted view, just because I challenge that bogus 20% claim I’m a misogynist who doesn’t care about the safety and welfare of women. A good indication that your opponent is losing the debate is when he resorts to ad hominem attack.
Edits: 09/30/14
...whether a large number of young women are sexually assaulted and the men should be held accountable if no consent is given?
You argue the details of the report but ignore the big picture - surely a failed debating tactic.
Are you a really a misogynist who doesn't care about young women?
You don't deny it or express your concern about these young women.
Nor do you offer an suggestions how these men can be taught respect and boundaries.
“You argue the details of the report but ignore the big picture - surely a failed debating tactic.”
Wrong again. You cited a bogus claim, i.e., 20% of college coeds are raped, and a bogus survey to buttress your claim. Both the number and the survey have been discredited numerous times.
I've never said or even implied that a man should not be held accountable for rape. My point throughout has been that the definition of "sexual assault" is oftentimes too broadly defined, and that charges of campus rape are grossly exaggerated. You have failed to provide a valid study to convince me otherwise. (You can make your point that rape is abhorrent without spewing erroneous information.)
Any rational adult would concede that just because one challenges the frequency of campus rape in no way suggests that he/she isn’t appalled by the act of rape. But let's not lose sight of the fact that a great many allegations of rape are false.
Again: " Any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes that there is. A command officer in the Denver Police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45 percent. Objective studies have confirmed this. See Purdue Professor Kanin's nine-year study published in 1994 concluding that over 40 percent of rape allegations were demonstrably false."
http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/avfms-mega-post-10-reasons-false-rape-accusations-are-common/
“Are you a really a misogynist who doesn't care about young women?”
Again with the ad hominems. You can’t help yourself can you?
“Nor do you offer an suggestions how these men can be taught respect and boundaries.”
I agree with your splendid advice of yesterday, to wit: “keep it in your pants.” Your moral (liberals would snicker and call it “pious”) approach was appreciated and duly noted.
...here are some different numbers:
"Earlier this year, the results of a 5-year-old survey of Princeton University students were leaked, revealing 1-in-6 female undergraduates experienced "non-consensual vaginal penetration." That same year, 2008, only 20 forcible sex offenses were reported at the university of roughly 7,800 students, or roughly 1 in 195.
That 1 in 6 Princeton women experienced sexual assault is not abnormal when compared to other universities -- and is actually lower than the Justice Department's 2006 estimate that nationally one-fifth of female college students are sexually assaulted. Princeton later released survey results from 2009 through 2012, which showed an average of 1 in 8 women had reported a sexual assault, dating violence or a stalking in a 12-month period. These results too were lower than national averages, but represented a large discrepancy when compared to Princeton's self-reported Clery numbers."
Whether you agree with the statistics, it is big problem and the California law is a step in the right direction since keeping in their pants does not seem a viable option.
into what are private discussions among people. Welcome to the Nanny State where others in a State owned building decide what is good for you and what your behavior NEEDS to be like.
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