Isolation Ward

Posted by geoffkait (M) on December 01, 2008 at 17:04:22

The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin

By Brian Reid

(Excerpt)

"Ten years ago, researchers stumbled onto a striking finding: Women who believed that they were prone to heart disease were nearly four times as likely to die as women with similar risk factors who didn't hold such fatalistic views.

The higher risk of death, in other words, had nothing to with the usual heart disease culprits -- age, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight. Instead, it tracked closely with belief. Think sick, be sick.

That study is a classic in the annals of research on the "nocebo" phenomenon, the evil twin of the placebo effect. While the placebo effect refers to health benefits produced by a treatment that should have no effect, patients experiencing the nocebo effect experience the opposite. They presume the worst, health-wise, and that's just what they get.

"They're convinced that something is going to go wrong, and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.""

• The Nocebo Effect, Placebo's Evil Twin (entire article)   (Open in New Window)

Edits: 12/01/08

• RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin - zanash 03:24:17 12/17/08 (1)
  In Reply to: RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin posted by geoffkait on December 01, 2008 at 17:04:22

  YES ... I've writen on a number of forums about this
  
  I've come to the conclusion having demoed cables to a great many people, that the nocebo effect is very real.
  
  Not wanting to describe how I demo cables ..which would bore the pants off everyone sufice to say that I don't offer any information as to what I can hear ..only ask if they can hear ....
  
  professed cables skeptics will not here a cable ...even when its my "clown cable" made of steel ! which is odd as people who have no axes to grind can hear it ...often not audiophiles or actually interested in hifi at all !
  
  so one can ask doe these skeptics hear it but not admit to hearing or genuinely not hear what others do ...now with out getting into there heads or using a polygraph there's no way of telling which it is.
  
  If I take it at face value that they can't hear then there must be a mechanism ...other than poor hearing thats the cause. The Nocebo effect could be just such a way to explain what I've seen ....
  
  

  ---

  • RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin - geoffkait 16:25:07 12/17/08 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin posted by zanash on December 17, 2008 at 03:24:17

    Good analysis.
    
    
    
    

    ---
• RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin - anthonyh 10:16:42 12/11/08 (1)
  In Reply to: RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin posted by geoffkait on December 01, 2008 at 17:04:22

  Interesting item from geoffkait. I skimmed the article, and nowhere does it address a simple question: is this "belief" drawing on medical tests,a doctor's diagnosis, a family history of heart failure, and/or on random symptoms which might lead a patient to suspect the worst? Then of course these patients are apt to experience a higher rate of attack.
  
  

  ---

  • RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin - geoffkait 13:57:35 12/12/08 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin posted by anthonyh on December 11, 2008 at 10:16:42

    Angst might possibly be a better word than belief in this particular case. Or the phrase, self-fulfilling prophecy.
    
    

    ---
• Lots of interesting reading on that topic ... - Stephæn 14:38:26 12/04/08 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin posted by geoffkait on December 01, 2008 at 17:04:22

  .
  
  æ

  If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.
  

  • Something else, relatively mainstream ...   (Open in New Window)

  
  

  ---
• Neat topic. I'm trying to recall some Hi Fi reviews that might apply. - Enophile 10:21:05 12/02/08 (2)
  In Reply to: RE: The Nocebo Effect: Placebo's Evil Twin posted by geoffkait on December 01, 2008 at 17:04:22

  In general, audiophile responses to tweaks skew heavily in favor of 'benefit' or 'no difference.' Quite rare to find a tweak review that says, "Nothing happened," let alone, "Something bad happened."
  
  I guess if we keep the nocebo or placebo effect in mind, then, when someone claims either benefit or detriment for a tweak, we must remain equally suspicious.
  
  "Expectation Bias" lives on.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ---

  • RE: Neat topic. I'm trying to recall some Hi Fi reviews that might apply. - anthonyh 10:42:29 12/11/08 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Neat topic. I'm trying to recall some Hi Fi reviews that might apply. posted by Enophile on December 02, 2008 at 10:21:05

    Good point Enophile. But what is the difference between "nothing happened" and "no difference"? You say one is common with reviewers, the other not. The two comments sound the same to me.
    
    

    ---
  • RE: "Quite rare to find a tweak review that says, "Nothing happened," let alone, "Something bad happened."" - geoffkait 17:07:57 12/02/08 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Neat topic. I'm trying to recall some Hi Fi reviews that might apply. posted by Enophile on December 02, 2008 at 10:21:05

    Keep lookin', they're out there.
    
    :-)
    
    

    ---

Post a Followup:

---

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] Thread: [ Display  Email  Next ] [ Isolation Ward ]
[ Comment ] [ Edit ] [ Delete ] [ Copyright Warning! Click for Details ]

---

[ Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2008, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]

---

[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]

---