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Isolation Ward

RE: Beg Pardon

144.226.173.68

In Reply to: RE: great innovations that have changed the world posted by rick_m on February 05, 2008 at 08:28:24

I think you are confusing the issue. Let's not go to far out on a limb here. The HiFi Industry did NOT discover radio, TV, or the Automobile.

Again, here in lies my point regarding the audiophile community - does not TV & Radio have a LOT more purposes outside of the audiophile community? Hmm like public communication, emergancy broadcasting, the ability to talk to someone in space, the ability to send pictures of other planets from space, etc, etc, etc.

Follow Ups:

Sure, any technology has numerous applications... - rick_m 11:11:32 02/05/08 (5)
but being conduits of culture (including advertising and propaganda) are huge for communication systems. For most people that is probably the main benefit. Never underestimate the bread and circus effect. Take football for instance... Here is a test, what percentage of time and bandwidth do you use on the internet for entertainment as opposed to business and practical matters? Don't forget that news is entertainment.

Trying to understand and improve the home audio experience is a noble cause, bringing enhanced enjoyment and helping further the state of the art. Truly a worthwhile hobby.

Rick
- I agree with everythign in your last post - groove 15:04:25 02/05/08 (3)
  Hey Rick,
  
  They are all valid points. My point was simply that earth shattering scientific discoveries are not being generated within the hifi industry.
  
  Whether trying to understand and improve the home audio experience is a noble cause or not is another matter!!! :) (You, me, and other audiophile loonies agree, but others may call us crazy - and to some extent they just might be correct. But yes, I also agree it’s a noble cause and am very thankful for guys like Kevin Hayes, Joe Curcio, etc)
  
  There is great ENGINEERING being done within the HiFi industry, and let's give credit for that. But with VERY few exceptions, that engineering work is based on existing science. (Those very few exceptions are discussed at length within this forum)
  
  I do not believe it is creditable to say that new scientific frontiers are being discovered within the audio industry. I would also bet that if you asked the any of the key industry players/designers/manufactures/engineers within the community they would tend to agree. With the exception of Clark, who I think only he himself would classify as a "key" industry player - most of these guys would classify themselves as Engineers - not scientist.
  
  I actually don't disagree with you Rick. Where I depart is when folks start comparing the work of Einstein, Pasteur, etc, etc to the work being done in the HiFi industry. It's just silly in my opinion. It’s a matter of perspective for me and let’s just face it – making our stereo’s sound 3% better is not going to get us any closer toward being able to travel to Mars and back.
  - RE: I agree with everythign in your last post - rick_m 23:39:52 02/05/08 (2)
    Why thank you! If I had any sense I'd quit while I'm ahead! But...
    
    Home audio is indeed a noble pursuit, trust me on this as I'm clearly older and wiser. Some day you will thank me. As for folks thinking we're crazy, we WOULD be crazy to care what they think. I don't dare quote R. Feynman as that would break commandment 12 but I have always been pleased that he agreed with me.
    
    From the tenor of your posts I sense that you that feel that home audio is somehow unworthy technically and pragmatically compared with say rocketry and communications. Having worked in those areas, I hold the opposite view. I'd say that home audio is more difficult because it's interfaces are so poorly defined and the minimum performance levels are vague. And I know this may sound strange, but beyond the engineering aspect, there is the social one and rockets are usually a force for bad, while home stereos usually work for good. At least when I read Stereophile there isn't an ad asking me "How's your kill ratio?". Burrrr....
    
    Rick
    - There is a considerable difference - unclestu52 10:49:52 02/06/08 (1)
      between pure science and applied engineering. Most 'pure' science will lead to applications, and the application engineers/scientists often hasten and promote the maturity of preliminary designs, increasing efficiency, size, and practicality. Widespread applications then lead to the economy of scale in mass production.
      
      One can see this in many electronic components. Fast recovery diodes has certainly pervaded every catalog I have seen and the number of manufacturers offering them has increased significantly. While necessary for switching power supplies, it has enabled digital amplifiers to succeed where similar designs in the 70's failed. Once where 5% resisters were the norm, 2% is common place and 1% or better resisters are almost as common.
      
      High end manufacturers/designers have pushed the envelope themselves, too. A decade ago Faroudja line doublers and quadruplers were astronomically expensive and dependent on programmable chips. You find their technology in $100 DVD players today. Matti Otala developed the testing procedures and wrote up the effects of TIM distortion and a new measurable effect then entered the engineering world.
      
      Application engineers definitely have their place in the world and their efforts should not be denigrated. Many if not most scientific research is being done with an eye for practical application anyway.
      
      Stu
      - RE: There is a considerable difference - rick_m 11:42:41 02/06/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: There is a considerable difference posted by unclestu52 on February 06, 2008 at 10:49:52
        
        Hi Stu,
        
        On behalf of hard-bitten Ap. engineers everywhere, thank you!
        
        You are ever so right about fast diodes, low ESR caps, low L Isense resistors and other stuff for switchers. These things just didn't exist 20 years ago. And we could have used them then but there wasn't a large enough driving force to make it worthwhile for the manufacturers.
        
        This is either the best or worst of times, and I can't tell. While there are far more parts to choose from with "rich" feature sets, it's also very time consuming to source them. It can easily take half a day for one passive part. And things are more dangerous than they used to be, once dropping the 39 page Mouser catalog on your foot was nothing, the current 2000 page version can put you on crutches!
        
        Regards, Rick
- I would further argue that music is the highest culture, and therefore... - clarkjohnsen 11:36:45 02/05/08 (0)
  ...any technology that provides or enhances it merits our closest scrutiny.
  
  clark

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