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I was inspired by a post by Mr. Roberts running his 414 full range with a cap to his horn.
I decided to try this with my open baffle 605s(replacing markwart xovers)...15" run full range with a 3.3uf to the horn. If I calculated right, that should be a 3K xover. Voices jumped out into the room and top end much brighter...too bright. After some more reading, I tried some 2.2uf caps(wanted to go to 4K xover, but miscalculated, is actually about 4K9, I think). Toned the brightness down, but left the voices in the room.
Not sure what I did, but I like it.
Follow Ups:
Glad I am inspiring perverse ears-on experimentation, although I think the 414 does play midrange much much better than any Altec 15s.But what the heck, it is almost free to try...and it is always worth attempting to keep crossovers out of the vocal range if the drivers permit such luxury.
If anything, it will help you to know and understand the 605 parts and what they do a little better.
Try an old oil cap on that tweeter. Should tame it down somewhat and possibly help with tonal integration between horn and cone.
Give the long slow rolloffs, the quality of the cap overrides (was going to say "trumps" but you know) the absolute measured value.
Doesn't this rig scream out, so to speak, for an attenuator on the horn?
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Free your mind and your ass will follow -- Parliament/Funkadelic
Edits: 11/20/16
Thanks for the reply
To answer your question, I already have some L-pads on the way.
I listen to singer/song writers, so vocal range is important. If I used the xover calculator right, I used a 3.3uf for a 3K xover. The voices came into the room, but the horn was screaming. I moved the xover up to 4K9(wanted 4K, but miscalculated) with 2.2uf. Became very listenable. Added a 0.47uf to the 2.2uf, but the screaming came back.
When I get the L-pads, I'll go back to the 3.3uf and see if I can tame the screaming.
I'll get some oil caps when I settle on a cap value.
Any other advice will be appreciated.
I use a pair of subs with the OB 605b's.
Although flying by ear can work, the best thing to do is measure the output of the LF then add the tweeter above the rolloff point.
Rollofs will be slow in your case, so leave a gap. The gap between the LF and tweet will be filled in somewhat as the two sources add.
This addition process is probably why your low xover was screaming, peak at 3k which is a sensitive range of hearing (and the scream zone).
You can get a RTA (Real Time Analyser) app for your phone that will greatly assist in this. A mic and a laptop with free software is another avenue to empirical knowledge.
4.9k might not be a bad place to be, maybe even a touch higher. Depends on what the woofer is actually doing. Basically you want to avoid overlap at frequencies where the woofer is still going strong because the two sources will add to a deadly peak.
A minor suckout at 4-5k might not sound as bad as a wicked peak.
With a handful of caps, an L pad, and a phone app you should be able to get that setup reasonably well lined up.
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Free your mind and your ass will follow -- Parliament/Funkadelic
My plan is to get the L-pads and play with different cap values to find what I "most " like. Then compare it to the Markwart xover.
Any recommendation for a RTA app for my iPad?
Thanks for your help.
Luddite that I am, I use a $12 flip phone, but surely there are many knowledgeable app freaks in the general vicinity.
For the purpose at hand, ultimate precision is not necessary and may even prove distracting, but it would help to have a general idea of what is going on.
What the rolloff of that OB woofer looks like is the key data point in situating the tweeter filter.
I use a Parts Express measurement mic and REW when dialing stuff in. I also just wing it a lot for wild-ass experiments but sometimes I need to check my work when I am unhappy with the direction things are going.
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Free your mind and your ass will follow -- Parliament/Funkadelic
Maybe the link will be helpful to you?
Edits: 11/12/16 11/12/16
Thanks for the links, but I was wanting to minimize components between speakers and amps. Was hoping someone could give me some insight.
..... Check out the schematic of an Altec N-1500A crossover.. !
Have fun
Willie
NT
If I am not mistaken the 605 is effectively a 416 with a coaxial 806. Joe runs his Altec 414A's full range. I don't know if you would get similarly good results with the 15" driver. The 414 is reputed to be one of the best midrange drivers ever made.
The midrange is what I like about the change.
GP shows their 416 flat out to about 3K. Don't know how similar the 605b woofer would be.
I had 604's and 416's, all original. IMO,the 414A(original) has a much better midrange than the other two Altecs I mentioned. So I have to agree, 414 is probably the best midrange I ever heard based on the Altecs I owned! I still have the 416 as I am planning to build a sub and use it for HT.
that's the way Stan Ricker said he ran Altec Duplex with a small cap, it tends to EQ the top. IIRC, it was too bright for my tastes with ~2.2uF & I preferred an N1600 scheme. Stan said something about using several motor run caps in series to get the highpass cap - I think it was his belief that it was good sonically to have a "large plate area" in the capacitor. Maybe some of the horn guys will comment on that belief.
Karlson Evangelist
Most likely you created a peak or shelf in the response by not limiting the upper woofer response and lower tweeter response with a crossover network and that was in the "presence range."
That can sound good but time will tell.
At some point you may still think it sounds more engaging but on the other hand too hyped.
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